如果我不想和一个打电话的人出去,我该怎么说??

Hi Evan,I follow your 2-2-2 rule,太棒了,但我有过一些尴尬的时刻,需要你的建议:在放映电话时,如果进展不顺利,我决定不想亲自见面,我该如何在不伤害他的感情的情况下告诉他??Especially if he thinks the call is going well and suggests a date!!

加布里埃

如果你不是一个长期的读者或者在网上找到那个consumer,the 2/2/2 Rule means I encourage you to exchange a couple of emails on the dating site,在第一次约会之前,先发几封关于Gmail的电子邮件和几通电话。

我不鼓励刷卡。I discourage coffee dates.我不鼓励发短信。

所有这些常见的约会方法都将人们视为一次性的,会导致更多的薄片,会议前较少的筛选和较高的数量/较低质量的首次约会。

常见的后盾是应用程序使其不可能做到这一点,人们不喜欢电子邮件,the phone is stilted,每个人都使用短信,and it's best to meet as quickly as possible.

这些都是继续滑动/文本/会议方法的部分有效借口,所以我要说,once and for all,如果你喜欢这样约会,keep on doing your thing.

我没有,几乎所有的客户都讨厌刷卡/发短信/见面,and yet they don't do a thing about it.

The 2/2/2 Rule is my best advice – and while it can be modified (say,5/3/1),在约会网站上建立联系的原则,避免成为男人发短信的后宫成员,在会面前建立兴奋和信任仍然是最重要的。

Anyway,,我在这里为2/2/规则写了更长的辩护词,不需要再做了。

To answer Gabrielle's question,我认为这是一个很好的问题,答案很简单。

Would you rather have an uncomfortable minute where you inadvertently hurt a guy's feelings,or would you rather spend two hours going on a date with that same guy??

Would you rather have an uncomfortable minute where you inadvertently hurt a guy's feelings,or would you rather spend two hours going on a date with that same guy??

因为你是对的——这会很尴尬。In fact,比这更糟。你几乎有50%的几率会有一个消瘦的愤怒的家伙诅咒你,因为你在电话里打了半个小时后决定他看起来很自私,否定的,and creepy.

就个人而言,I've not asked out women on the phone and gotten yelled at.

I've had one woman refuse to go out with me after a phone call – and while I was surprised,I took my medicine and let it go without further comment.I don't think most other guys will.

长话短说:你的目标是礼貌地放弃一个日期,并尽量减少任何附带的损害。言简意讳。道歉。Be firm.Whatever happens next says everything about him and nothing about you.

Whether that's enough to stop you on going on dates where you actively don't want to be there is entirely up to you.

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评论:

  1. 诺基

    加布里埃

    You politely and firmly say NO;problem solved.I too have had awkward phone conversations but Evan is spot on;花两个小时和一个给你提供嘻哈吉比的人在一起更尴尬。很多约会都是关于拒绝和被拒绝。是的,有些人会生气,但这是对他们的反映。

  2. 中午45

    Women usually too much about justifying themselves.如果你没有感觉到某人,就没有必要解释你自己。Sure,很高兴这么做,but you don't owe a man anything and can exit when you want.我一直在寻找”这不是给我的”工作良好。It avoids making things personal.我结束它,避免解释。对于那些突然出现的幽灵(这似乎总是发生的),我只是说一切都好,祝你一周愉快”and that takes care of it 😂

    1. 2.1
      Karl R

      我必须完全同意中午45关于这个。当许多人(诺基,贝拉蜜树and Yet Another Guy,etc.) have given excellent examples of how to decline a first date,女人对此太担心了。

      加布里埃担心伤害他的感情。如果有人约会够久,they're going to get their feelings hurt.  If you can't bear the thought of having your own feelings hurt,或者如果你不准备成为其他人受伤的原因,then you're not ready to date.  And as中午45指出,许多女人对此担心得太多。

      Be polite.  If you give a reason,别搞得很私人化。你拒绝约会,not giving unsolicited feedback about his personal qualities.  If he wants to argue about your reason,你不能在那里赢得辩论。你当然不能忍受别人的愤怒或虐待。

      此外,人们对事情的进一步发展投入了更多的情感。因此,如果你早点而不是晚些时候把事情分开,事情就会自动变得不那么痛苦。

      1. 2.1.1
        Marika

        HiKarl R

        “If you can't bear the thought of having your own feelings hurt,或者如果你不准备成为其他人受伤的原因,那你还没准备好约会呢”“

        你说了很多这样的话。I agree that in an ideal world,当然在某种程度上,你说的是真的。But you are a very logical person and seem to have quite a thick skin.If some of us waited to not worry at all or feel bad about hurting people's feelings (or getting our own hurt,尽管我个人更担心前者,我们永远不会约会。而且,事实上,rather than sitting out of the dating world working on this…some of us only get better at dealing with worries regarding hurt feelings through practice.还有更多的练习。

        所以我个人强烈反对敏感的人需要推迟约会直到我们变得不那么敏感(这可能永远不会发生)。We all manage these things differently.

        1. 艾米丽原文

          Marika,

          而且,事实上,rather than sitting out of the dating world working on this…some of us only get better at dealing with worries regarding hurt feelings through practice.还有更多的练习。

          I don't think men understand how excruciating it is for women to have to turn a man down.I'd rather have a root canal.Men are conditioned and raised differently than we are.It wasn't until I got in to my 40s  that I could say no without feeling I had to explain why.

        2. Adrian

          嗨,玛丽卡和艾米丽,,

          我认为所有人……大多数人都在努力拒绝某个人。Especially the nicer,肯德尔不管是什么。当我在约会中真正感受到对方的活力,我知道我不想和他们在一起时,我开始感觉不好。

          如果是相反的方向,it stings but I get over it fairly quickly.好笑啊?我想知道杰里米会说什么是这种行为的原因?当然,被拒绝会比拒绝一个人造成更多的情感伤害,but I always feel worse when I do the rejecting.

          ……

          哦,艾米丽是这个团体中最酷的孩子……玛丽卡,我想我们只是她的后备舞者。

        3. Karl R

          Marika,

          你误解了我的意思,even though I think you're already getting the general thrust of it in your own life.

          这是个程度问题。当别人受伤时感觉不好是可以的,or to feel hurt when dating doesn't go the way you hoped.

          但感觉不好/受伤是有区别的,或者让恐惧把你推向瘫痪,因为你想让它无痛。

          看看什么加布里埃asked:“我该如何在不伤害他的感情的情况下告诉他??““

          好,在那种情况下,她有可能伤害到那个人的感情。但是如果她早点告诉他,她会伤害他更少,她不会等到晚些时候。(如果她遵循这里给出的大多数其他建议,她也会减少对他的伤害:礼貌点,don't make it about him,etc.)

          有点担心别人在分手时的感受是great几年前,有人问了一个很棒的问题:How do you prefer that someone break up with you?“她问男人,但我认为不管是谁和谁分手,答案都是一样的。

          我总是试图让分手(或拒绝分手)对另一个人来说不那么痛苦。couldn't让它无痛,所以我没有浪费时间去担心。

        4. 西尔瓦纳

          我完全同意玛丽卡和艾米丽的观点。Saying no is incredibly hard.

        5. 188bet电子竞技

          拒绝是约会中最必要的技巧。99%的人不是你未来的丈夫。Why waste time with them?为了避免伤害他的感情的痛苦?拜托。

        6. 艾米丽原文

          希亚·阿德里安,
          如果是相反的方向,it stings but I get over it fairly quickly.好笑啊??
          我不同意。很难被拒绝,but rejecting isn't easy.I don't feel responsible for the other party and I think it's better to be clear and say no than drag it out,但我讨厌这样做,especially when I've been put in a position to say no I never wanted  (i.e.你开始在聚会上和某人聊天以表示友好,相反,他认为你是友好的你突然想:我得在恶心的情况出现之前离开这里,versus a situation you know could lead to a date like a phone call from an online introduction or a second date after a first.)

          I think we are just her backup dancers

          我一直想要后备舞者。你觉得豹纹短裤怎么样?为你。Not Marika.🙂

        7. Adrian

          嗨,艾米丽,,

          你说,““我一直想要后备舞者。你觉得豹纹短裤怎么样?为你。Not Marika.““

          Sure as long as you rock the mullet I'm in!你认为80年代的年轻人会回首往事,对自己的风格畏缩不前吗??

          你说,““我不同意。很难被拒绝““

          Tom10说,““当我们拒绝与某人约会时,我们不是含蓄地说:“I don't see you as good enough;我想我能找到更好的人。期间”?……这才是造成伤害的真正原因。That we're not good enough.That we don't cut the mustard.某物,or everything,关于我们的事情就是不能解决。It hurts because it cuts right to the core of who we are.““

          我知道你和汤姆在说什么,我想这取决于你对这个人有多投入,尽管汤姆需要呆在他自己的车道上!He is stealing my roles!(^_^)

          I'm supposed to be cast as the sensitive one and he is suppose to always play the lovable cocky rogue!我要去见我的经纪人。What's next!Jeremy waxing on about how women are entitled snowflakes in an attempt to put poor YAG out of a job??

          ……

          家门口的情况怎么样,艾米丽?你的健康?你工作的压力?你在你的新城镇寻找真正的朋友?男人们还想邀请你去教堂,作为筛选你是否值得和一个南方绅士约会的方式吗??

        8. EJ

          卡尔R说推迟约会在哪里??

      2. 2.1.2
        中午45

        Men don't have the same hangups.有一个原因:他们没有被教导要对别人的情绪负责。Women are taught this problematic tradition.That's where the LW's hangup comes about – She's taking responsibility for someone else's feelings at a point where it's entirely inappropriate.你应该经常考虑你的行为会如何伤害他人,but at this juncture,she's not married or committed to the guy – what he feels is of no consequence.如果她不这样想,那就太疯狂了。

        这是关于边界的。It's not healthy to take responsibility for the feelings of someone you barely know.I'm pretty firm that I don't do this sort of thing. In fact,去年我和一个男人约会了5次之后,他说,“如果你让我高兴,it will all work out"。I'm not here to be responsible for someone else's happiness.现在,some people are going to think"如果不是因为幸福,在一段关系中有什么意义?金宝博电子竞技“.You have to take responsibility for your own happiness.Other people can't make youfeel什么都行。That's of your own doing.By making our emotions dependent on others,we give away our power.When you try to take on others emotions,你在干预一些你不能控制的事情。这是我的拿手好戏。

        1. Marika

          中午45艾米丽

          两点都好。In terms of boundaries,I've done courses,与治疗师交谈,读书;地段。结婚了。Been on hundreds of dates since divorcing.我最终承认我的社交能力太强了——我总是担心伤害别人——尤其是在利益失衡的情况下。我就是这么想的。我可以为此烦恼,book myself into some ‘boundaries clinic' on a farm somewhere with slippers and people in white coats (I exaggerate),give up dating forever….或者接受这是我的方式,并尽我所能来管理它。却不认为自己“还没准备好约会”。

          Of course,the logical way to manage it would be to be very careful who I give my heart to,but…yeah… that's another story 😉

          我不确定这是性别问题。这可能是一种概括(并引发另一场博客性别战争)。我哥哥和我很像。你花了5分钟和我高度焦虑和总是担心的每个人在一起,除了她妈妈,你会明白为什么。I feel bad even writing that as she always means well and does her best.但她就是这样。And I certainly don't blame her or see myself still as a child,我只是觉得我们不需要都是厚脸皮的克隆人,就可以在约会的世界里大展拳脚。就像杰里米曾经说过的,he sees the somewhat anxious women as the best partners.And there are definitely advantages of dating someone who cares enough to worry about you.

        2. 艾米丽原文

          玛丽卡和努恩

          Men don't have the same hangups.有一个原因:他们没有被教导要对别人的情绪负责。

          同意。Men are taught to compete.Women are taught to tend.

          就像杰里米曾经说过的,he sees the somewhat anxious women as the best partners.And there are definitely advantages of dating someone who cares enough to worry about you.

          我认为自己是一个逃避者,我讨厌拒绝别人。在另一篇文章中,有一条评论是关于焦虑和很难接受分手。我愿意,too.The avoidant will often not display the pain but will feel it just as much … unless it's just a really bad situation (maybe a highly toxic person) and you just want out.当我完成时,我完了。

        3. 杰瑞米

          我认为这不一定是社会化。我认为移情在一个人的气质中是天生的。性别社会化可能会起到反作用,但我不知道这样做有多成功。

          我讨厌约会时被拒绝,但当一个女人拒绝我时,我有时会发现自己在微笑。Smiling because,尽管我感到疼痛,至少现在压力已经过去了。但拒绝别人时我从不笑。I agonized over it.几年后就为之苦恼,在我的脑海中重新播放对话。我不得不解雇员工让我告诉你,我宁愿被炒鱿鱼也不愿被炒鱿鱼。这就是我的连线方式。我总是比我自己更看重别人的情感,比我自己的情感更看重别人的情感,功能失调。所以我可以理解其他有同样问题的人——理解那些害怕被别人当混蛋的人,being the ones to cause pain to others,他们下意识地选择与他们分手的伴侣,这样他们就不必成为分手的人。Despite the old saying,有些人宁可当钉子也不愿当锤子。

          卡尔和埃文是对的,当然,这必须通过学位或其他方式来克服。Because when you choose a partner who will be the asshole so you don't have to be,你最后的搭档是个混蛋。Not to say that each of us needs to be the asshole,but at least when the assholery is shared we have some degree of control of our destiny.

      3. 2.1.3
        Adrian

        Hi Karl R,,

        你说,““如果你不准备成为别人受伤的原因,那你还没准备好约会。““

        I struggle with this a LOT.一个人是如何达到这样一个境界的,即他们不会因为拒绝某个人而犹豫或感到内疚(我的意思是,特别是当你知道这个人真的喜欢你的时候)?)

        1. Karl R

          阿德里安问:

          “I struggle with this a LOT.一个人是如何达到这样一个境界的,即他们不会因为拒绝某个人而犹豫或感到内疚(我的意思是,特别是当你知道这个人真的喜欢你的时候)?)“

          And further up,Adrian said:

          “如果是相反的方向,it stings but I get over it fairly quickly.好笑啊?““

          谢谢你让我的解释更简单。

          让我们假设一下你在镇上的情况,and I'm acting as your wingman.  (It could happen.)  Each time you want to approach a woman,I actively interfere,因为你可以被拒绝受伤,and I don't want to see that happen to you.

          How would that make you feel??

          生气的?Disrespected?你know你可以忍受那种痛苦。坦率地说,它的your做出决定,不是我的。

          如果我尊重你,I should letyou决定你是否要冒受伤的危险。你是个成年人,不是孩子。你有权和我一样做出决定。

          当我和一个女人打交道时,同样的原则也是成立的,当她被我吸引时。我足够尊重她,asan equal,做出和我一样的决定,and to suffer the same unpleasant consequences.

          I find it particularly interesting that you asked,,“How does one get to the point where…."“

          我引用的另一个版本,我在别处说过,开头是这样的:

          “如果一段关金宝博电子竞技系失败,it's highly likely that至少one person will get hurt.  If the 金宝博电子竞技relationship成功,很有把握他们最终会二者都受伤。”“

          你,比这个博客上的任何人都多,应该明白我为什么这么说。你知道一段成功的关系会给你带来多大的痛苦。而你金宝博电子竞技仍然willing to try again.

          你是怎么做到的,你不仅愿意为自己再面对一次,but also face it for whomever you might succeed in a 金宝博电子竞技relationship with??

          The answer to the two questions is pretty similar.

          艾米丽原文说:

          “I don't think men understand how excruciating it is for women to have to turn a man down.I'd rather have a root canal.男人的条件和成长方式与我们不同。”“

          几年前,我读了一个心理学家的有趣的陈述。她建议你不愿意拒绝男人不是因为痛苦他们会feel.  You're trying to avoid the pain,,你会感觉。

          In other words,你对男人不好。你只是怯懦地在拒绝他们后感到痛苦。

          但是艾米丽is correct in one sense.  Menconditioned differently.

          例如,18岁时,我必须注册选择性服务。所以在我十几岁的时候,I knew that the government had the right to conscript me into the military.  They could send me to a foreign country,命令我杀了那些不该死的人不仅可能造成他们相当大的痛苦,but it was also likely to cause pain to their surviving relatives.

          如果我能在那种遭遇中幸存下来,I'd be expected to soldier on,and kill more people.

          As a woman,做了什么事you想想你18岁的时候??

          不管你是否在调节肌肉,你的心,or your emotions.  It'sa painless process.  And the tougher you've become,你越是痛苦地去那里。

        2. 艾米丽原文

          卡尔R,
          她建议说,你不愿意拒绝男人不是因为他们会感到疼痛。你试图避免这种疼痛,你会感觉到的。In other words,你对男人不好。你只是怯懦地在拒绝他们后感到痛苦。
          你在推断我从未写过的东西。我没有说我couldn't拒绝男人。如果有人约我出去,他应该得到答复。我不相信做鬼魂,也不相信花一辈子的时间来回应或围绕我真正想说的话跳舞。但是没有回避这样一个事实:被拒绝的人常常感到痛苦。And yes,the rejector feels pain as well.那里没有突发新闻。

        3. 杰瑞米

          卡尔,“她说你不愿意拒绝男人不是因为痛苦他们会feel.  You're trying to avoid the pain,,你会feel."“宾果。正是如此。关键是要理解,我们如此珍视自己的同情心被夸大了。我们没有感受到别人的感受,我们感受到了想象他们感到——然后感觉到自己的痛苦。对我们中的一些人来说,我们的想象力太活跃了,the pain we feel ourselves disproportionate to what others are feeling.

        4. 艾米丽原文

          Jeremy,,

          We aren't feeling what others are feeling,我们感受到了想象他们感到——然后感觉到自己的痛苦。对我们中的一些人来说,我们的想象力太活跃了,the pain we feel ourselves disproportionate to what others are feeling.

          This is irritating.我们在这个博客上听到的都是男人们在约会中必须做的一切……接近,规划,initiating,等。女人坐在那里,拥有一切力量,决定事情是否进展。So we tell you that we feel horrible having to say no and consider the other person on the other end of it,现在我们被告知这是我们真正关心的自己的痛苦,我们高估了我们给男人造成的痛苦。OMG,what do you want?Because if we said we felt nothing when saying no,你会带我们去做这件事。

        5. Nissa

          我承认这个人,值得拥有一个喜欢和欣赏他们的人,就像他们欣赏我一样……我不能诚实地回到那个水平。把我的注意力放在不做空那个人上,it takes the focus off of me,and back to the level of"it's not a match".We all deserve a match,因为无论什么事情是我们的交易破坏者(当然,可以协商不解除协议)。但我坚信,大致相等的利息是一个交易破坏者。

        6. 杰瑞米

          It's about degrees,艾米丽。我有时会觉得你认为我是一个没有感情的机器人。我离它最远。You're a Star Trek fan,right?Do you remember why Vulcans developed logic?因为如果没有它,他们的情绪会失控?Someone much like me must have come up with that storyline.

          我不是责骂女人(或男人)感受他们的感情。如果他们不同情他们拒绝的人,feel pain for inflicting pain,他们不会是人。感受痛苦,break up in the most painless way possible,给他/她的尊严,并试着承担首当其冲的责任。But don't avoid having the difficult conversations or taking the necessary actions because you're afraid of pain.As Karl wrote,that just ends up causing more pain in the end.

        7. Adrian

          Hi Karl R,,

          谢谢!You have given me a new way to view this.

          Two quick questions:

          1。你有没有因为一些在我这个年纪看起来很重要的事情而拒绝过一个女人(31岁即将32岁),但现在回想起来,你会发现这些事情从长远来看并不重要?If so what are some of those things??

          2.你有没有考虑过的前三件事糟糕的约会建议?我特别提到很多人(关系作者,金宝博电子竞技约会大师等等)对大众重复说,在约会方面聪明或正确,但事实上,你认为这会伤害到男人,而不是帮助他们。

  3. 3
    又一个家伙

    这个问题的答案很简单。手术室应该感谢他抽出的时间,but tell him that she does not feel that he is a good fit.  If he is a decent guy,那将是谈话的结束。如果有人换气过度,the OP should tell him that she needs to go and hang up the phone.  If he calls her back,她应该封锁他的电话号码。

    这么说,这就是为什么女人在约定见面的地点和时间之前,不应该把电话号码告诉约会网站上的男人的最重要原因。相反,她应该让他提供他的电话号码,然后在拨号前先拨*67号号码。a woman is in complete control of the telephone dialog.  Any decent guy who is truly interested will agree to this arrangement.  I do it all of the time without being asked.

    最后,women should not worry about hurting a guy's feelings at this stage.  Most men have had to deal with rejection since they were teenagers.  It is part of playing the dating game.  As Evan has mentioned many times,一般男人在交友网站上一个月内遭受的拒绝比女人一生中要承受的还要多。

  4. 4
    贝拉蜜树

    从屏蔽电话到面对面会议的适当措辞,if he asks for a date:
    I sense we're not looking for the same thing...
    我的直觉是我们不在同一页。..
    It's good to have the opportunity for a chat like this,但我不想再进一步。..
    Thanks for taking the time to call,但我想把它留在这里。..

    避免给出任何具体的理由,because that gives him something to argue with,如果他是那种没有礼貌地接受你的第一个“不”意味着“不”的人。

    If he argues,不要细致入微。重复你的第一句话——这是自信训练的结果。The very fact that a guy would dispute your clear ‘no thanks' only confirms that he is definitely not to be met in person.

    不管他是否试图说服你,end the call quickly and in a way that is final – gotta run,祝你一周愉快/万事如意等。

    1. 4.1
      Nissa

      贝拉米特里,

      我喜欢你的建议,并自己使用其中的一些。

  5. Marika

    我知道这不太理想,但是如果你有一种可怕或令人毛骨悚然的感觉,当他约你出去的时候,你可以说你需要离开电话查日记,然后发短信给他说,考虑了一下,你不认为把事情做得更进一步是个好主意。

    Again,不理想,但如果你觉得他可能会被虐待的话。很明显,尴尬的谈话可能是任何关系的一部分,金宝博电子竞技but having scary conversations doesn't need to be part of talking to a virtual stranger.

    这发生在我身上的一个家伙在我接他的电话时刚刚打招呼(当我问他是否是X时,他防卫性地问还有谁会打电话)。当我问我为工作做了什么,但他自己却拒绝回答同样的问题时,当我试图礼貌地结束一个(可怕的)半小时的谈话时,我变得很有趣。There was no way I was seeing him or explaining why!但我很高兴在决定是否见面之前和他聊天。

  6. Marika

    Well…卡尔,我能够误会,或它能够have something to do with your wording…or a bit of both.

    Like I said,you've mentioned this many times and I personally think using the phrase ‘not ready for dating' (even though possibly you are exaggerating) is unnecessary.

    Yes,大概是度,and believe me,我想和你一样。这是永远不会发生的。And I don't think anyone (with the exception of sociopaths and the like)还没有准备好for dating or should stop dating or not date or whatever… it makes it sound like pathologising those of us who are on the more anxious side.我认识一些非常焦虑的人(比我更焦虑),他们婚姻幸福,或者在外面为约会世界做出贡献,而不伤害任何人。Is it harder on them/us?当然。我们应该把自己藏起来,这是某种病理学吗?Nope.

    1. 6.1
      Karl R

      Marika,

      让我给你一些现实生活中的例子,and you can make your own determination whether they are ready for dating.

      例1:

      他害怕被拒绝,so he tries to"好人and"“朋友”his way into a 金宝博电子竞技relationship.  Over the course of ~6 months,我看着他慢慢地试着和一个女人交朋友。he went on three not-quite-date-things with her.  His attempt with this woman abruptly ended when I asked her out on a date.

      这个人迟到了50s,now in his late60年代,他是never在他试图避免被拒绝的痛苦时,金宝博电子竞技这个男人花了几个月的时间弱点to date a woman.  If he had faced the pain,他本可以更快更频繁地失败,which would have improved his success rate.

      例2:

      She posted on this blog a few years ago.  She had convinced herself thatallmen would eventually reject her and dump her,so she“preemptively rejected them,““(她的话)在他们拒绝她之前。那是她避免痛苦的方法。

      She's sabotaging每一个因为害怕被拒绝金宝博电子竞技,她的关系no chance长期成功,becauseends them before they can succeed.

      Example #3

      她害怕伤害我的感情,所以她没有和我分手。约会几周后,她决定通过做鬼魂来避免分手的痛苦/尴尬。

      I agree that breaking up with someone face-to-face is difficult.  But it's even harder to explain to someone later why you ghosted them.

      I'd met this woman through dancing.  By ghosting she'd created amore awkward她害怕解释为什么她会鬼魂,所以她开始避开整个舞蹈界……因为她永远不知道我会参加什么舞蹈活动。

      Of course,this just compounded her problems.  Not only was there the awkwardness of the breakup,再加上给我做鬼魂的尴尬……但她又加上了不得不解释为什么几个月来她一直躲着我的尴尬。

      As an outside observer,你认为什么时候会变成easierless awkward让她面对最终的谈话??

      几个月后,我们碰面了。她偶然发现了一个尴尬的借口,说她为什么消失了。我真的didn't carewhat excuse she made up.  I'd assumed that she just wasn't that into me,两周后开始和另一个女人约会。

      To the best of my knowledge,that woman didn't date again for the next year or so (at which point she moved to another state).  It's been 10 years,and I believe she's still single.

      这些人准备好约会了吗??

      我不是真的照顾例子中的三个人是否继续尝试约会。除非他们改变他们的恐惧驱动策略,他们正在降低成功的机会。他们实际上是在确保他们会失败。

      这也不是担心。(如果我不得不猜测,1很焦虑,2是焦虑的逃避者,and #3 is avoidant.)  This is about repeatedly using an无效的dating strategy.

      I don't even think I'm"病理学”这些例子中的人。我只是观察他们的行为,结果是什么。

      我不认为他们应该把自己藏起来。把自己藏起来……即使他们在外面约会。

      People get hurt during dating.  That's observable reality.  In order to date,you have to put yourself in a position where youget hurt and/or you伤害他人。

      人们害怕痛苦。所以为了约会,你还必须处理害怕疼痛(无论是引起还是接受)。

      如果有人不能(或不愿)忍受约会的痛苦,如果有人不能(或不愿)忍受痛苦的恐惧,,what is their other option??

      我试图尽可能清楚地说明这一点。我只是对现实进行观察。在我看来,你是在反驳它……或者因为你不理解它,或者因为你不希望它是真的。

      1. 6.1.1
        Marika

        HiKarl R

        I am just making observations about reality.  It seems to me that you're arguing back against it … either because you don't understand it,或者因为你不希望它是真的。

        不是真的。I just think you're being overly judgemental and a bit harsh.它不是一个观察,这是你对这些人的解释/判断。很多人在约会中都会很糟糕地结束关系、鬼金宝博电子竞技魂或绊倒自己。希望他们能学习和提高,那当然是个理想。Or get some professional help.但即使他们没有,they are quite within their rights to be in the dating pool.我们都犯了错误,应该休息一下。

        I let it go the first couple of times you said it,但这次我想说点什么。I just see things differently.我知道你善于辩论,但这并不能使你说的每句话都正确。以及任何不同意错误、误解或盲目的人。

        Happy to agree to disagree.

      2. 6.1.2
        快乐夫人

        Your mind is beautiful.

  7. 7
    Marika

    艾米丽说:

    “我认为自己是一个逃避者,我讨厌不得不拒绝别人。The avoidant will often not display the pain but will feel it just as much … unless it's just a really bad situation (maybe a highly toxic person) and you just want out.当我完成时,I'm done"“

    谢谢你的解释。I guess the only real difference between you and me in relation to this topic (and maybe our attachment types more generally?) is the last line.我嫂子说过一次和我类似的话,我从来没有忘记过。一旦她决定要结束一切,她很快就把它从脑海中抹去,继续前进。这是一项有用的技能。Of course,也有助于了解即使某人看起来不沮丧或不挣扎,they may be.Just not showing it.That actually helps with some situations where I've wondered how a person can move onso quickly,,就像上一段感情一样毫无意义。金宝博电子竞技可能不是这样,看起来就是这样。

    我知道,我知道,这就是你必须做的,不要浪费时间等(在别人告诉我之前——我知道)。I just find it difficult.我觉得这些对话和解释很有用。

    1. 第7.1条
      Karl R

      艾米丽原文说:(#2.1.2.2)

      “逃避者通常不会表现出痛苦,但也会感受到痛苦。”“

      玛丽卡回答说:

      “Of course,也有助于了解即使某人看起来不沮丧或不挣扎,they may be.Just not showing it."“

      This ties into an interesting point.  There's been an underlying assumption in this thread (expressed by several individuals) that men feel less distress than women,尤其是当他们拒绝的时候。

      这让我想起我发现的一项研究(并与在博客的其他地方)几年前。我忘记了,they showequalamounts of emotional pain.  But if youask他们有多痛苦,the womenself-report比男人更痛苦,对于完全相同amount of emotional pain.

      And it's entirely possible that this is a conditioned response.

      艾米丽the original said to me:(#2.1.3.2)

      “你在推断我从未写过的东西。我没有说我不能拒绝男人。如果有人约我出去,他应该得到答复。我不相信做鬼魂,也不相信花一辈子的时间来回应或围绕我真正想说的话跳舞。”“

      我没有推断出,but I can see whyyoudid.

      你以为男人不明白拒绝一个人是多么痛苦(即使我们也拒绝和伴侣分手)。Marika假设我说了厚皮肤是约会的必要条件。你们两个都推断我说的是去哪里约会。don't feel疼痛。

      当你拒绝某人时,you give an answer,because that's theright thing做,regardless of how you feel about it.  When I approached women,或者被拒绝的女人,或者和女人分手,,我做了必须做的,,不管我怎么想。

      在约会中,你必须做伤害你的事。你必须做伤害别人的事。你必须做这两件事才能成功。如果你想以道德的方式行事,you have to face up to the pain you're causing and experiencing.

      And I don't think加布里埃明白了这一点,becauseasked how to turn someone down for a date“without hurting his feelings"“.  That implies that maybe she can't bear the thought of hurting men … like she'll have to if she wants to act ethically.

      1. 7.1.1
        188bet电子竞技

        只是想做一个细微的区分:

        When you break up with someone,you are not intentionally hurting them as if you were to say something vicious or throw a punch.

        You are declaring a simple truth: you're wonderful,but I don't see myself marrying you and you deserve to have someone who is all in.时期。

        Thus,我会鼓励每个害怕伤害别人的人重新定义这一点。

        You are not hurting them.They are感觉伤害.There's a difference.

        1. Tom10

          @埃文7.7.1.1
          “When you break up with someone,you are not intentionally hurting them as if you were to say something vicious or throw a punch.
          You are declaring a simple truth: you're wonderful,but I don't see myself marrying you and you deserve to have someone who is all in.时期。”“

          尽管埃文,这是真的吗??

          当我们拒绝与某人约会时,我们不是含蓄地说:“I don't see you as good enough;我想我能找到更好的人。期间”??

          那是造成伤害的真正原因。That we're not good enough.That we don't cut the mustard.某物,or everything,关于我们的事情就是不能解决。It hurts because it cuts right to the core of who we are.

          And we'll never know为什么我们不够好,因为对方几乎从不说真话;如果他们不淡出或消失,他们通常会用模糊的语言混淆,which leads to further doubt about what is the real quality we lack that makes us not good enough!然后我们将所有潜在的缺陷放大为实际的缺陷!天哪,不安全约会者的思维过程并不有趣。

          ———

          我很惊讶地看到这里所有关于人们感到内疚拒绝别人的评论,就像在现实世界中,我认识的大多数人没有问题残忍地拒绝别人;as they were brutally rejected in turn so many times themselves.

          As Karl said;拒绝和被拒绝只是约会中固有的一部分。

        2. 188bet电子竞技

          听你使用的术语。They're not objective.它们是主观的。“残忍地拒绝了。”他们在感触文字。

          “你不够好”may be what you're feeling.But if you're on the other side – and are rejecting someone,you're not trying to hurt them or make them feel bad about themselves.意图是重要的。很多。因此,尽管有些人可能——愚蠢地——将拒绝内化为我不够好,“I encourage people to see rejection for what it REALLY is:"你很棒,I just don't see myself spending every day for the rest of my life with you,“哪一个,when you think about it,比一个人最初的反应更合理,更不那么侮辱人。

          Your emotions may be real to you,但它们并不总是客观现实的准确表现。By the way,你的评论正是我写作的原因““Why He Disappeared.““人们想知道原因——事实上,有很多种可能性,但实际上它们都不重要。Your future spouse DOESN'T break up with you.任何人都不是你未来的配偶。

        3. Nissa

          非常好,完全正确。

        4. Adrian

          Hi Evan,,

          我真的很喜欢你对Tom10的回应。所以我的问题是,你认为在你的童年/青少年时期,哪些关键因素帮助塑造了你在如此积极的庄园中看待拒绝的能力??

          你知道,从我的过去,我的父母,我们信奉工作狂,所以直到上大学我才约会,甚至不去想女孩(不觉得自己像个罪人)。And even then it was in a unrealistic Hollywood romantic way.这就是为什么我最终和第一个认真对待的女孩订婚的原因。

          I have the looks but not the confidence or experience and I strongly believe that confidence and experience trump looks.So I was hoping you would not mind sharing what things you believe helped cause you to not see rejection as Tom10 described…

          I wish you still had your podcast because this seems like a great subject to talk about.Have you ever thought about doing a"去资助我吧或者“Patreon“account to support your podcast?我很乐意为你提供的内容付钱。

        5. 188bet电子竞技

          “我真的很喜欢你对Tom10的回应。所以我的问题是,你认为在你的童年/青少年时期,哪些关键因素帮助塑造了你在如此积极的庄园中看待拒绝的能力?““

          很难客观地回答这个问题,阿德里安。As best I can tell,it was a combination of having married parents,being an oldest child,学术水平高,而且生来就有着不合理的自信,这在一路上得到了父母和老师的支持。Basically,I believed I could do anything,如果我失败了,it was just a sign that I had to try harder.不管你信不信由你,我最引以为豪的成就之一就是在9年级被裁后,我在10年级开始制作合资篮球。I'm not that tall,我不能开枪,但我很聪明,而且工作很努力。My business is the same way.有些更聪明的人更擅长社交媒体。I just feel very strongly that what I have to say is important and am willing to put in the work to get the message out.

          我的默认设置是失败,学习,失败与学习,失败和学习。我从来没有想到我是个失败者,或者我应该辞职。If that makes sense.

          而且,for now,I'm appreciative that you'd pay for content.我现在还有别的鱼要炒,but will keep it in mind.

    2. 七点二
      艾米丽原文

      Marika,

      我嫂子说过一次和我类似的话,我从来没有忘记过。一旦她决定要结束一切,她很快就把它从脑海中抹去,继续前进。

      只有当我真的想结束的时候。Maybe I've discovered something in the person's personality that makes him repellent or I get to the point where I fundamentally don't like him.But I once broke up with someone because it wasn't going anywhere and I very much wanted it to.我觉得我别无选择,但很痛苦。我本来希望过几天他会打电话给我,劝我不要再打了。He didn't,当我几周后(出于专业原因)遇到他时,我很酷,但比其他任何东西都伤得更重。

  8. MilkyMae

    Thin skinned people who get upset when they are rejected can be men or women.The ones who ask are the ones who lash out.如果你不问,你不能抱怨被击落。The only difference is that men do most of the asking so they make up most of the whiners.男人在挫折中没有垄断地位。

  9. 9
    Marika

    Hi杰瑞米

    ““我认为移情在一个人的气质中是天生的。”“

    是吗?That's interesting.Can I ask what makes you think that??

    “This must be gotten over"“

    我同意这是约会的一部分,or even interacting with other people,it's the gotten over part I'm not sure about.并不是说这不是理想,但在那个神奇的日子里,我们拒绝别人(解雇他们等)并没有感觉到痛苦,因为我们中的一些人不太可能发生。

    Again,it's mostly the ‘not ready to date' bit I object to.I know that's an exaggeration,but I'm just sick of hearing it.I think it's unfair (like only secure people have the right to date) and short sighted (as you learn and grow through experience).

    1. 9.1
      肖卡特

      Hi杰瑞米

      ““我认为移情在一个人的气质中是天生的。”“

      是吗?That's interesting.Can I ask what makes you think that??
      @Marika,,

      I tend to agree with Jeremy on this point,and it certainly fits with some of my personal experiences.例如,儿童对无家可归者的反应与成年人甚至青少年的反应截然不同(因为全面的社会化还没有产生效果)。法国哲学家,卢梭made this point and argued that intellectual capacity could sometimes blunt this natural empathetic response to suffering,通过允许个人编造合理化人们不幸处境的叙述。我还记得有一段时间我读过一位进化生物学家的文章,他认为如果合作,因此移情作为副产品,并没有出现在原始人中作为生存策略,then consciousness would likely have never evolved in homo-sapiens.

      好奇的Marika,as a neuroscientist,大脑中是否没有与移情相关的通路??

    2. 九点二
      杰瑞米

      R:克服它,“想想勇敢和自信之间的区别。勇敢是害怕,但无论如何都要继续。自信是在看似不害怕的情况下进行。自信(至少,generalized confidence) is bullshit – either a contrived act or evidence of extreme stupidity.  Bravery,尽管如此,勇敢是值得称赞的,理想的追求。imho,of course 🙂  In the same way,one need not proceed in dating as if one had no feelings.  One should proceed in spite of them.  Bravery,不自信。

      关于移情,I've read studies that basically say what Shaukat wrote below – that empathy is somewhat innate and"长大的differently depending on our experiences.  Interestingly,我不喜欢这些研究是如何设计的,特别是它们如何利用离散的观察作为全球移情的替代物。我对动机比离散的行为更感兴趣,我不认为在这方面移情研究得很好(尽管考虑到你的背景,I'm sure you've read more on the topic than I have).

      我倾向于认为我们每个人天生都有气质,a predisposition,给自己或他人的情感更多的价值。在课堂上坐得很好的孩子,听老师讲课,等待她的金星有着与坐立不安的男孩完全不同的内在动机,后者迫不及待地想走出教室。这个男孩倾向于重视安全,往往对别人的情绪非常敏感,因为这样做她更适合,感觉更安全,并最终从他人的反馈中得到她的价值观。另一个人倾向于重视表达和积极影响,只在有利于他人的情况下才重视他人的意见。当然,this is an over-simplification.  What I'm trying to say is that I think empathy is related to temperament,对于天生的个性。我更感兴趣的是为什么一个人会有同情心,而不是如何以及何时表现出同情心。

      1. 9.2.1
        Marika

        嗨伙计们

        有趣的聊天!我不是神经学家,尽管如此,我在一个相关但非常独立的领域工作。I'm also in clinical work,不是研究,别忘了,我在研究中学习和工作时,曾有过一些关于移情的研究。

        Shaukat

        Like I said,我不知道,but they probably have done fMRI studies looking at which brain part/s (my guess would be parts) are involved in empathy.也许他们比较了那些对控制或其他什么都不感到懊悔的连环杀手……但这仍然不能告诉我们任何关于先天与后天的事情。Obviously the more you use it,你越是建立起这条道路。这比我认为的天性更能说明教养。

        有一项具有里程碑意义的研究,是关于通过将课堂划分为眼睛颜色来建立对个人差异的同情心的教师(以证明基于肤色之类的东西的歧视是武断和令人不安的)。作为成年人,some of those kids interviewed carried that lesson with them.But perhaps they only interviewed the people who were more wired towards empathy in the first place.

        杰瑞米

        It sounds like you've read the studies.  Feel free to send me a literature review 🙂

        但在你的例子中……可能是孩子安静地坐着,从出生起就以微妙而不微妙的方式敲进他/她身上,得到爱和认可的最好方式就是表现得很好,and the other kid has something else going on in his / her frontal lobes (unrelated to empathy) making him/her bouncy and distracted.Studies of human behaviour are tricky,正如你所知道的。对个性/气质的研究更为棘手(毫无疑问,你知道)——你使用哪种衡量标准?自我报告是否可靠等。等。

        每当我遇到一个明显缺乏同情心的人,我都会喜欢把它归结为“他们就是这样出生的”!That would make life easier 🙂 But I suspect it's not that simple.It's probably a mix of nature and nurture.就像快乐夫人说的,我认为这会随着时间和生活环境而改变。And in her example,也许气质在创伤是否会使人少一些或多一些同情心方面起着作用(Happy夫人记得Anita Cobby的父母,而她儿子被当年澳大利亚籍的前男友谋杀的那位女士——记不起她的名字了——创伤让他们更加同情她,or brought out their empathy even more.以安静的方式令人惊奇。

        我喜欢勇敢的一面。我对你的自信没有内在的负面反应,but I understand the distinction,and it certainly makes sense.埃文也把分手重新定义为给这个人一个机会去寻找他们的生活伴侣。这有帮助。

        哦,和快乐夫人,it seems the band is back together 🙂

    3. 九点三
      快乐夫人

      我认为同情心可以改变一个人的一生。我认为创伤,or being in survival mode,改变(降低)一个人感觉与他人有联系和同情心的能力。让孩子经常改变妇女容忍其他孩子受到伤害的能力,降低他们甚至听到这件事的容忍度。我认为对一些人来说,同理心是一种学习技能。

      1. 9.3.1
        杰瑞米

        Do you think that the empathy itself is learned in such cases,或者,所学到的就是重视它?我错过了我们的谈话。

        1. 快乐夫人

          It think the following.  Some people (not many) cannot feel empathy no matter their parental modelling or upbringing,他们的大脑没有这些部分和联系,e.g.反社会者。这些人学会假装情感,如移情,以在世界上取得成功。

          Other people,e.g.有大脑能感受到同情心的孩子,have upbringings which are severely disadvantaged,e.g.创伤性的,emotionally absent parents,horrific poverty.  Those kids just don't get taught empathy,they don't see much of it,所以这不是他们的组成部分。如果他们在以后的生活中被教导,or modelled empathy later in life,看着他们周围的世界,然后他们会感觉到更多的同情心。

          在某个阶段经历随机创伤的人可以看到他们的同理心改变;我一直以为会减少,but Marika makes a good point regarding trauma to one's family and how that can increase empathy for some.

          这是很常见的,以至于在生了孩子之后,妇女们发现自己对发生在孩子身上的伤害更为敏感,that I suspect that change must be hormonal and due to pregnancy,分娩和婴儿关系。

          同理心是一种感觉,我认为这不容易。or possible) to adjust immediate feeling states,so I don't think empathy can be ‘learned' in that sense??

          重要的一点是,empathy is fluctuant.  It changes within even a day,e.g.after a long tiring day at work,更不用说一年或一辈子了。在医院急诊室的候诊室里呆上一段时间,在她的职业生涯开始的时候,看着分诊护士……作为一个21岁的聪明人,30年前,she cared about people and was kind and empathic (a male's dream really).  But is there a more unimpressed-by-pain-and-suffering normal person on the planet than an old career triage nurse?她已经看到了一切。她会为真正的紧急情况而跳起来,但她不会为候诊室里的任何人和他们对痛苦的抗议动感情的眼皮,绝望,痛苦——在她的同情心水箱里什么都没有。

          哦,我知道小姐不会这么做的,所以几个月前你离开的时候,我把我的电子邮件地址发给了埃文的助手,转寄给你。我从来没有笔友。

  10. 10个
    埃勒1

    我想加布里埃唯一的办法是确保她在甄别过程中拒绝他而伤害他的感情,是把它换起来让他决定拒绝她。

    1.我不喜欢淋湿,so I only take a shower and wash my hair once a year.

    2.我总是和我的猫在餐桌上吃晚饭,他很有占有欲,所以你必须习惯在角落地板上的碗里吃饭。

    3.只有你唱这首歌,我才会和你做爱”Maneater"先和我一起到霍尔和奥茨。单一的。时间。

    4.有些男人认为我在控制,因为我坚持要挑他们每天穿的衣服。我没有控制,我只知道什么对他们最好。

    5.说到挑东西,我经常挖鼻子,even in public,因为我喜欢这种感觉。Then I examine it,because I find the different kinds of stuff from my nose to be very interesting.然后我吃它,因为我相信循环利用和减少人类细菌向生物圈的转移。

    一点创造力可以让任何人都能自由约会。!

    1. 十点一
      桑德拉

      如果电话交谈中没有合适的词语,为什么不留一条短信呢??

      1. 10.1.1
        埃勒1

        桑德拉

        我只是在开玩笑。我的观点是,如果你故意说一些让男人厌烦的话,因为你不想和他约会,你不用担心拒绝他,因为他会停止追求你。

  11. 11
    斯旺森

    “I discourage coffee dates."“

    伊克斯。You want men to go all-in financially,eh,Evan??

    I've never asked a woman out in my life,and I don't think I've missed anything.如果不这样做,我经历了足够多的拒绝;我不需要任何额外的。

    1. 11.1
      188bet电子竞技

      I encourage women to treat men well – to make them feel accepted,欣赏和钦佩。我鼓励女性对前任保持冷静,porn,以及经常发生的男性不敏感和笨拙。我鼓励女人不要和那些不喜欢被利用的男人上床。我鼓励女性从长远来看评判男人真正重要的是:善良,一致性,交流,commitment and character.Women who listen to me end up in great marriages because they understand men and have healthy boundaries for how they expect to be treated.为什么任何一个有自尊的女人会和一个只投资4.25美元买一杯拿铁来显示自己兴趣的男人做爱,这是我无法理解的,但是,一如既往,无论什么让你快乐,人。

      BTW,我不会在周五晚上打电话买饮料和开胃菜。”一切都在。”这就叫约会。

      1. 11.1.1
        肖卡特

        “为什么任何一个有自尊心的女人都会和一个只投资4.25美元在拿铁上显示自己兴趣的男人做爱,这是我无法理解的。”

        对不起,埃文,你知道,我喜欢你,并且通常支持这个博客的信息(我不花时间阅读或评论我不同意的网站),但是我发现这个说法有很多地方不对。第一,there is the possibility that the woman is also just interested in casual sex–in which case,拿铁咖啡,或者晚餐,or the drinks,完全无关。But maybe you're abstracting from those cases.Still,I disagree with this notion that the latte,或者应用程序,或者晚餐,or the drinks,are an adequate measure of the man's ‘investment.' All those things simply serve as the opportunity to explore whether two people are compatible,mutually interested,and have chemistry.活动不应该,根据我的经验,通常不会,真的很重要。And on the flip side,我认识很多男人,他们很乐意把钱花在丰盛的晚餐上,即使他们只是想做爱。They tend to view their money/status as an expression of their value when it comes to dating–not my style.

        Also,如果我错了就纠正我,your dating model was formulated before tinder,或班布尔,or any of those swiping apps.当一个男人和一次投资于一个男人的高度女性化的女人打交道时,这种方法是有效的——它没有考虑到这么多人(男人和女人)在这种约会文化中交易的事实。In my experience,most considerate women no longer even expect the man to court in this fashion anymore.However,I am curious: If one of your clients were to gout with a guy who suggested splitting the bill,would you tell her to next him??

        1. 188bet电子竞技

          1。如果一个女人对随便的性爱感兴趣,这不适用于她。Thus,你说的任何超出这一点的话都没有抓住要点。你应该更清楚的是,当我给那些被仍在燃烧的男人伤害的女人提供性建议时,这与一个冷静的人无关。

          2.这项活动不重要。真的,理论上。然而,实际上,是的。如果你在一家公司找工作,那家公司派你去见他们的执行团队,把你安排在四季酒店,带你出去吃一顿丰盛的晚餐,while their competitor just told you they'd text you when they made their decision,which company would you value more.Thus,这不是钱的问题,而是一致性的问题,个人注意力。晚餐,不要咖啡。Phone calls,not texts.接下来的第二天,不迟于3天。

          3.我的模型是在约会应用程序之前制定的。我和泰德谈过。人们认为应用是解决方案,but they are the problem.和社交媒体一样。Everyone uses Tinder.每个人都抱怨每个人是多么的古怪和粗鲁。好,当然了!你是应用程序上的照片,不是一个人。他们对你没有任何投资。所以我鼓励我的客户推动他们接受更好的治疗——打电话,emails,每天调情,followed by dinner/drinks after less than a week.另一种选择是你现在看到的?刷卡权,文本,meet,and maybe fuck a stranger.It's a broken model.保持网上约会的最佳状态是明智的——了解,兽医,like and trust a stranger – without giving into the worst – exemplified by dating apps that,大多数情况下,不适合女性的约会体验。

          4.Part of the problem is the lowering of all expectations in courtship.I may not be able to put the genie back in the bottle,但我会继续做我的工作,提醒女性,她们应该得到更好的治疗,而不是成为某个男人的咖啡/发短信/性伴侣的一部分。I would think you would agree with that.

          5.如果我是一名男子教练,我会告诉他拿帐单,in full,without question,因为它是“effective."作为女性教练,我发现自己扮演着魔鬼的拥护者的角色,鼓励她在他分拆支票后,当她想打破局面时给他一个机会。所以你倒过来了。女人受不了那些把她们当作一次性用品的男人,但是他们还是忍受了,因为他们没有信心期待更多。我为他们提供了这个框架。正确的人会更进一步。错误的人会自我毁灭。为听我说话的女人赢得胜利。

        2. Nissa

          @肖卡特,,

          I'm with Evan on this one,因为一个令人惊讶的原因:你做什么并不重要,the woman,想想这个。This is how MEN think about it,以及男人对它的情感反应。因此,instead of imposing a female paradigm on men,接受它们的本来面目以及它们的功能是更有效的。

          女人也会这样做,in other circumstances.我有只眼睛不好的狗,that I tried unscuccessfully to avoid having to remove.我每隔6小时给药一次,持续几个月,尝试了不同的产品,1金宝博望先锋comforted him when he tried to get away from me medicating him,他不知道该给他什么样的照顾。用我的时间投资他,energy and focus changed my feeling about him.他成了我的最爱,因为我对他投资最多。

          Shaukat,你可能看不到晚餐,drinks or phone call as an investment,但这不是钱,也不是点什么饮料,而是时间,effort and focus.That's true,完全独立于女人的意图或投资。

      2. 11.1.2
        斯旺森

        埃文,,

        I'm against the idea of"投资以显示兴趣”.女人不是为我做的,so I don't see why I should do it for them.

        I don't believe that women are"被使用if they sleep with men who are only after sex.这意味着女人不喜欢/不想做爱。如果他们想要的不止这些,而且被欺骗了,yes,they're being used.But to act like women aren't getting anything out of the equation…well,你不是在暗示性对他们来说是很容易达到的,所以这是一个很小的好处,或者女人对性的重视不如男人。两者都支持我自己的观点。

        我从来没有带过女人去喝咖啡。授予,I don't drink coffee.我预测,未来,人们会认为咖啡约会很浪漫,因为男人会变得不愿意付出那么多努力…

        阿德里安,

        我不喜欢”going out"或“meeting new people".我的想法是“好时光”不是吗?等着看这个女人是否会和我睡。”.当我把钱花在自己身上时,I genuinely spend it on myself,不是别人。我很自豪地说,我从来没有浪费一美元的约会——因为这样,I've been able to afford many things that I otherwise wouldn't have.

        1. 188bet电子竞技

          你在这里的存在继续困扰着我,特隆。我知道你代表什么,过你的生活。我不知道你为什么评论,if not to publicly declare your wisdom and superiority over what we commitment-minded people are doing.你就像一个无神论者在一个天主教网站上游荡。这根本不影响我。我就是不明白。

      3. 11.1.3
        肖卡特

        很公平,埃文,但我不同意你在第2点所作的类比;我不认为一个人应该,in this environment,approach courting a woman as if he were an employer trying to woo a high demand,sought after applicant.创建错误的动态IMO,but if that works for other couples,伟大的。

        Also,while I agree with you that swiping apps have altered the dating environment for the worse,我认为你低估了它在多大程度上改变了女性的偏好。例如,in my experience most women now prefer texting over calling as well.不仅仅是男人有着轮流发展的前景。我的观点很简单,如果男人在这种情况下调整他们的约会策略是可以理解的。

        也就是说,I agree coffee dates are boring,and have personally never suggested them.

        1. 188bet电子竞技

          Acknowledged.这并不是完美的类比。事实上,男人和女人都应该放慢脚步,让自己感觉特别,而不是把每个人都当作一次性的。所以,是的,你说得对,事情已经改变了,女人也随之改变了。我之所以要后退,是因为我不认为这一变化实际上对女性有益。我认为这是他们吃过的东西——游戏化,多巴胺的冲击(像社交媒体一样),很少有人会停下来考虑他们对约会的憎恨是由约会应用程序体现出来的。Too many choices.个人投资或联系不足。所以不管世界在做什么,我将继续支持更多的个人交流方式(电话和晚餐),而不是更少的个人交流方式(短信和咖啡)。

        2. 中午45

          为什么全世界的人都和陌生人一起去公园?Are you trying to get stabbed?🤣

          I get as an ugly woman I'm expected to"take what I can get",bit most of these cheap date ideas put you at risk of getting murdered and tossed in a dumpster.安全第一,你以后的感觉,也许吧。

        3. 桑德拉

          中午45
          为什么全世界的人都和陌生人一起去公园?Are you trying to get stabbed?🤣
          不能再同意了。这里的许多男人都表示,除了最适合的女人以外,他们都非常不喜欢运动。那么,为什么一个女人要在第一次见面时在活动场所遇到一个男人呢??

        4. 小型摩托车

          中午45
          为什么全世界的人都和陌生人一起去公园?Are you trying to get stabbed?🤣
          I get as an ugly woman I'm expected to"take what I can get",bit most of these cheap date ideas put you at risk of getting murdered and tossed in a dumpster.安全第一,你以后的感觉,也许吧。

          45号,you repeatedly say you're ugly.  Now,我知道有一个自闭症的孩子会对一个人的约会生活产生负面影响。I can definitely empathize,那里。

          However,I wonder if you are over-stating your self-professed homeliness?“规模”山姆·金尼森的胯部“Shrek",exactly how ugly do you think you are,and WHY??

          In my experience,people who fixate on their ugliness tend to be much more attractive than they believe.问题是他们不能see it";they think any positive comments are out of pity.

        5. 中午45

          Sandra,what's good for the goose certainly doesn't seem to be acceptable for the gander.I'm going to get attacked for saying this,但是女人必须停止接受贫穷的阴茎。So many women take crap men fro who broke emotionally,道德上,and financially.  I don't get it.If you don't have the money to date (and it goes for women to) you need to focus on getting your finances in order.It's about priorities.

      4. 11 1.4
        Chris

        埃文的服务,这个博客,针对的是那些试图吸引能负担得起约会费用的男人的女人。尽管在某些地方,即使是普通的饭菜也很贵,and if you're going to be going on a couple of dates a week this can add up.It behooves women to be gracious and order cheaper options if they are uncertain about their date's financial situation.

    2. 11.2
      Adrian

      嗨,特隆,,

      I see your point but I also see Evan's.有这么多的研究可以很容易地通过快速的谷歌搜索找到,显示出男性平均每年为第一次约会支付多少钱。When Yet Another Guy first said this I thought he was just bragging but nope he was right!!

      Evan is right that putting your best foot forward is also the best way to start a 金宝博电子竞技relationship.许多女性评论员反复说,有一些便宜的约会选择,但他们没有提到的是,地点决定了这个选择是否真的可行。

      老实说,我认为作为男人,我们最好的选择就是在接近和约女人出去的时候像女人一样有选择性。Of course because of the rejection rate (also something that has been researched and can be found on google) many men inadvertently set their bar lower and lower,同时扩大了他们的搜索标准。

      这不一定是件坏事,但正如肖卡反复指出的那样,由此产生的负面后果很多。像这样看,regardless of the results see the first date as a chance to get out,和新来的人交谈,并最终享受美好时光。你把钱花在自己身上,不要看它,因为你把钱花在一个陌生人身上,你必须给他留下深刻印象。

      1. 112.1
        又一个家伙

        @Adrian

        When Yet Another Guy first said this I thought he was just bragging but nope he was right!!

        I can assure you that my bank account wishes I was bragging.🙂

        1. Adrian

          嗨,还有一个人,,

          你试过所有女人都说的免费约会吗?这对你约会的感觉有正面或负面影响吗??

      2. 112.2
        Nissa

        @阿德里安,,

        我不明白你对位置听写选项的看法。Everywhere you go has an outdoors,大多数地方都有公园,museums,“商场”娱乐区”像喷泉一样,not to mention places like fairs,地方活动和会议。我住在洛杉矶附近,which is expensive in terms of real estate,还有很多免费的事情要做。在每个地方,if you want to make a date inexpensive,you can do so.问责制是靠自己来克服小问题。

        1. Adrian

          Hi Nissa,,

          我不确定你是否不能理解我的观点,因为你从来没有担任过负责提问的人的角色,规划,努力确保对方喜欢约会。但是…

          I have traveled across the U.S a lot and I can tell you that every major city is not the same.即使他们是,我相信在这里的很多女人都忘记了,所有的女人都不认为这些低成本的选择是好的第一次约会材料。

          I fear that sometimes both sides of the commenters see women in an unrealistically positive way.3-4 years ago when SparklingEmerald first brought up the idea of outdoor free date or low cost date ideas I thought it was genius and wondered why more men didn't realize do it.

          现在我看到他们可能有,但结果并不普遍,而晚餐确实给了你普遍预期的结果,因为每个人都吃。所以我首先要说的是,女人对你有多深。我相信一个女人对你越感兴趣,她就越不关心男人约会时使用的媒介,她就越关心他们是否有联系。But as Shaukat and Evan's conversation just highlighted women are just as into the abundance of choice age of dating apps as men are.It's hard to really get to into a guy when you are talking to several at the same time.女人想要像男人一样尽快见面,决定他们是否应该在你身边继续前进;太多的选择浪费时间在一个上面。所以建立融洽关系是2-2-2规则的核心,我不认为会发生太多,再说一次,我说的是平均第一次约会,而不是女人真正喜欢男人的第一次约会。

          Anyway since trying the free or low cost method I have found that most women are neutral about going out with you: not really excited but not just giving you a try because they have no better options.大多数女人不想第一次约会就在公园里走来走去(我听说这叫跛脚)。Most women don't want to play games in the mall entertainment area (I've gotten strange looks at this suggestion).当地的活动和博览会非常棒,除了博览会是季节性的,而且每一个当地的活动并不是每个女人都感兴趣。

          同样,尼萨作为选择日期的人,确保我们选择双方都喜欢的东西的责任落在了他身上。在一家不错的餐馆吃饭是中性的,going to an art fair or concert isn't.What do you do with a woman who doesn't like art?你在她旁边?What about the woman who doesn't like the type of music being played?你在她旁边?一个不想在公园里散步的女人怎么样?You next her as well??

        2. 苏格兰

          当一个小组的人告诉另一个小组的人他们的职责很简单(这基本上就是你所说的)时,我发现这很有趣。这并不像你说的那么简单。我们中的一些人生活在一年中有4个月的时间里天黑到5:00以下。there are low or no cost options available but they are not always readily available or unlimited or convenient.

          Heck,child birth should be easy.  What are all you women belly aching about?去医院,生下这个该死的孩子。医生和护士负责所有的工作。

        3. 西尔瓦纳

          阿德里安,

          我要说的是,你必须至少从某种程度上确定你想要什么样的女人开始。You can't get too specific,当然,但是,一个不想脏东西或做户外活动的女人之间有很大的区别,喜欢穿高跟鞋,完美的服装,hair,化妆,高端餐厅,formal events,等。,更具运动性/户外风格的女性,或者动物爱好者,喜欢大自然的人,enjoy burger joints and finger foods,等。

          第一类人可能不喜欢免费的或“更便宜的,绝对不是一个户外/运动型的约会。第二种类型的人可能会在闷热的时候感到不舒服,着装规范5- star restaurant or an art gallery.

          你应该保持开放的心态,你最好从一开始就消除某些性格类型。试着去寻找那些和你有共同兴趣的人。单凭这一点,你就能大致了解他们会喜欢哪种约会。

          正如埃文所说,if you have a phone call or two before the actual date,it should give you a pretty good idea of what the woman actually does enjoy.比如艺术,museums,动物,户外,体育运动,等。很容易确定。If you follow his strategy,你不是真的在计划约会”blindly".

          You can always create a list of a few,fun things you can come up with.然后在你和她说话的时候问她。Give her options (and make her give you a clue),直接问她喜欢哪一种方式。

          比如:你最喜欢哪一个/你更喜欢哪一个(不仅仅是约会,but in general)??

          正式餐厅,burger bar,还是野餐??
          历史还是未来??
          在SPA的一天,还是在海滩上呆一天??
          正式活动还是休闲郊游??
          Any indoor activity vs.有户外活动吗?(Like Art Gallery vs.outdoor arts & crafts fair.或者无数的其他事情。我在室内什么都想不出来,缺少博物馆,我会的,所以我的室内活动知识相当有限。)
          Musical or concert??

          可能性是无限的。将它们微调到您所在区域的可用范围内。包括一些你真正喜欢的东西。

          真的,她可能会说:两个“,但是如果你告诉她如果她不得不选择,你不仅能很好地了解她真正喜欢什么,but also her personality.如果她都不告诉你,你也会有更好的主意。这也会让她觉得你真的想了解她。

          通过让她透露自己的一些偏好,消除约会计划中的压力。

          再一次,Evan's one or two e-mail and phone calls should really give you a pretty good idea of what you both would enjoy.So,当你还在计划的时候,你已经知道你在计划她做(或者至少声称她做)喜欢的事情。

        4. Nissa

          @Adrian & ScottH,,

          Since I'm a woman who has asked multiple men on dates and paid for those dates,I consider myself qualified to speak about it.我从来没有过一个男人不喜欢约会的经历,so it's mystifying to me that this is an issue.I've taken men on picnics,walks at the beach,met them in sports parks (we have amazing sports parks in California that are brightly lit,人满为患,所以,我不知道为什么人们会想到黑暗的、毛骨悚然的森林,浴室被用于非法活动)。带男人去吃饭,and met them for coffee.现在,it has been years since I've done that,但我记得那些日子很有趣,即使关系没有进展。金宝博电子竞技我真的不喜欢问出来或支付部分,但我已经做了多次。我喜欢计划的部分,我只有一次约会看起来不合适(他在找一个女人来照顾他,so we weren't a fit).

          阿德里安I can see why women might not want to play video games at an arcade-like location.One,声音太大了不能说话,and two,我个人认为电子游戏有点孩子气。所以我得自己对那个说不。我个人喜欢上面列出的所有东西——公园,海滩,museums,艺术——如果一个人不喜欢这种约会,这对我来说是很有价值的信息,我需要知道,知道我们是否匹配。So I see this as a good thing – you are learning exactly what you need to learn about that person,如果他们和你匹配。Isn't that the point of dating??

          即使在你自己的评论中,你说如果一个女人对你有好感,她不会真的在乎是什么约会。Excellent – isn't that exactly what you want to know?太棒了,简单的方法来剔除那些对你不感兴趣的女人,让你度过一个无聊的夜晚?必须看到这里的积极性,布拉。

          弄清楚某人喜欢什么就跟问几个问题一样简单(我很容易做到,甚至在网上约会之前——现在你只需看看他们的个人资料或Facebook上有什么。If a woman doesn't like art,,问她喜欢什么.如果你看她的衣服,你会直视她的脸。是设计师的时尚吗?还是工装裤?The phone in her hand,是全新的还是旧的——她的播放列表上有什么,她的背景是什么?Do you really find it so challenging to ask a few questions?如果五点前天黑,而且还低于冰点,surely any place that well lit and warm would be an excellent start.In Minnesota they have dates at the Mall of America,我敢肯定。Sylvana is dead on when she says,offer a few options and let her pick.如果你从你愿意做的事情中选择,不应该有问题。

          幽默的旁白,在SoCal,健康是一件大事,所以很多人要么有特殊的饮食,要么根本不吃东西。我属于几组间歇性快速反应器,most of us only eat once a day or skip eating several days at a time.所以在SoCal,不能假设每个人都吃东西。

        5. Adrian

          Hi Nissa,Sylvana,闪闪发光,,

          I fear that each of you have missed my and I believe ScottH's point.

          All the things you all mentioned are actually great and I agree with them当它们可用时…这就是重点。

          ……

          Nissa said,““most locations have malls with entertainment areas““

          Yes those areas have games;adults play games to.

          Nissa said,““我个人认为电子游戏有点孩子气““

          So Nissa I highlighted this comment because I wanted to show a point.It's not an attack but an observation.

          这就是我和斯科特以及其他人想要表达的观点。很多人得不到的观点(老实说就是得不到)。Nissa说你对玩游戏不感兴趣是一回事,但说商场有娱乐区又是另一回事,但当他们建议你去那里时,你会贬低他,说这像孩子一样……我知道你不会那样看的。

          现在我又不是在攻击你。也只是说实话,即使我和一些评论员谈话,他们也不会发现其中的任何缺陷…

          Anyway

          在埃文的一封旧新闻信中,他讲述了一个男人和一个女人在一起的故事,这个男人对这个男人不是一个男人而为他们挑选了一些事情而感到不安,但同时,他挑选的每一件事,她都批评了这个选择(并委托他),当然她没有看到她在做那个。

          你说公园,other women say that's murder territory (literally right above your comment) and yet no one addresses that instead you all brush over my point about it not being as simple as you think about planning a first date and instead lecture me on how simple it is to plan a no cost or low cost first date.

          我总是欢迎建议,所以这不是问题,问题是你没有意识到,或者你只是看不到低成本,没有成本选择并不总是可用的,少数可用的可能不是女人喜欢的……因此被称为儿童或可能的公园谋杀。

          最后我有了一个刚满6岁的小侄女,还有两个3岁和2岁的表亲。我喜欢这三个,I love spending time with them and I watch all 3 alone on the weekends to give their parents a little free time (plus who can resist chubby cheeks).However,仅仅因为我一个月都要照顾好几天,并不意味着我可以把自己放在和全职父母一样的水平上。我不能告诉他们育儿并不像他们说的那么难。

          像聪明人一样,仅仅因为你约了几个人并不意味着你明白当一个接近的人是什么感觉,电话,计划,and pays for the majority of the dates.

          我写了评论12,关于我们在约会时的不同背景如何影响我们如何看待他人的挣扎。

        6. 西尔瓦纳

          阿德里安,

          你打算相亲吗?It somewhat sounds like you know absolutely nothing about the woman you're trying to plan a date with.

          要么,or we are totally misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

          I understand that some women might not like your choice.And that your choices are limited (although a picnic outside is available anywhere),因为我生活得很清纯,and options here are limited.

          What I'm not understanding is how you,在交换了几封电子邮件之后,then talking on the phone,still have absolutely no idea what the woman might like.如果你有什么共同点的话,首先要讨论的不是喜欢和不喜欢吗??

          为什么不问问她对有趣约会的想法呢?如果一个女人对你的要求不那么在意,反正你也不想要她。那就意味着她希望你能读心术。

          Or are you saying that the kind of women you like aren't the types who would enjoy a simpler/cheaper date??

          或者你想招待一家高级餐厅,正式场合的女人,在一个不怎么讨人喜欢的地方??

          It's no different from planning any event for anyone.找出那个人喜欢什么,然后围绕它计划一些事情。有希望地,他们会喜欢的。If they don't,他们要么会感激你的努力,或者你继续前进,因为你不想和他在一起。

        7. SparklingEmerald

          https://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/free-activities-nyc网站

          Here is an article that lists 21 totally free things to do in NYC.  One of the most expensive cities in the US.  Whatever city you live in,去你的谷歌搜索引擎,在(你的城市)输入免费的东西。这个链接有点旧(2015年)。but all or most of these things should still be available.

          Nissa lives near LA and there is a ton of free stuff to do.

          I have traveled and lived in many places in the US,我一直都能找到,低成本或无成本的事情去做。不仅仅是在日期方面,但我也曾是meetupcom.com的负责人,我计划的大部分郊游都是免费的。

        8. Nissa

          @阿德里安,,

          别担心,我没有受到攻击,but I realize that I meant something which didn't come across.当我说“娱乐区”我的意思是fountainswere entertainment…like the water show in front of the Bellagio in Vegas,或是商场里的艺术展览,当人们走过或坐在提供的座位上时,用来娱乐他们。I'm not offended by people joking about parks as murder setups,因为有些人听到parks"and think"与陌生人一起步行数英里进入人烟稀少的地区”which seems valid – but since that's not what I'm suggesting,没有理由被冒犯。

          I'm sorry you feel your choices were belittled.I want to point out that this is just my opinion,我确信还有很多人不这么想,所以我当然同意很多人会乐意这样做。我会说,这是我的意图(也可能是其他人的意图),向你展示这是多么容易,当你想感觉被理解的时候。你的语气暗示你感到无力,我们建议你有能力做出改变。你指出了一些不起作用的事情,我们建议把重点放在所做的事情上。

          Maybe an example would help.有个家伙制作了一个关于赚钱有多容易的视频,by doing things like getting free stuff from Craigslist,or cheap things on clearance or from 99 cent stores,and reselling it.他是对的。我想这样做吗?或者体验一下“简单”?No,because I personally don't much like shopping and I can't stand shipping things.我不知道为什么,it's not rational.But my personal preference doesn't mean this guy is wrong.Technically,he's correct in that it only requires skills almost everyone has or is willing to use.Low cost dating is the same thing.总有一些东西对你有用。You (or your date) might not want to do them,但这并不意味着它们既不可用也不存在。

          你看起来很棒,smart,有趣的家伙在很多方面,但在这一个例子中,你似乎让事情变得比需要的更困难。很多事情都很简单,如果我们愿意的话,感受不简单if we don't like them.我想这就是这里发生的事情。你不喜欢,所以你也很难接受。虽然我喜欢计划日期,并体验到在活动中有更多的选择,时间和精力。

          You might experience more pleasure if you plan what you want to do and invite others to join you in that.It's certainly worth a try.

      3. 112.3
        SparklingEmerald

        Adrian said :"“在一家不错的餐馆吃饭是中性的,going to an art fair or concert isn't.““

        You really think so?有这么多人和他们所有的饮食问题,I don't think so.  She could be vegetarian,素食主义者,不喜欢意大利菜,be gluten intolerant,等。etc.  She could dislike your choice in a restaurant,etc.  So picking a restaurant is not a sure deal,建议艺术或音乐会并不是必然的失败。

        你似乎是为了不降低成本或不降低成本而挖掘的。就个人而言,我不喜欢和陌生人第一次约会吃晚餐。我不喜欢等待人员的不断打扰(是的,I realize they are just doing their job),我不想为车队做贡献,但我的嘴里充满了食物,做“等一下手信号,等。

        I AM fortunate in that I live in a warm weather climate,我们的公园有漂亮的雕塑和喷泉等。We also have nice hiking trails and nature trails,都是免费的。Our museums are free on some nights,有艺术散步(免费)。公园里有免费音乐会。我去的最有趣的日子之一是在市中心。我们去了一个免费的博物馆展览,然后我们在中央大街上走来走去,我的约会对象给我看了他的favorite elevators"我们乘着玻璃电梯爬上更高的建筑物,欣赏城市灯光。我知道这听起来很老土,但我玩得很开心,看艺术,在市中心走来走去,and riding the glass elevators.

        Also,when I wrote my OLD profile,我把这些类型的东西放在问题下面。”First date ideas"并给出了具体的公园名称,hiking trails etc.

        So look at her profile,hopefully,她给出了一些她喜欢做什么的想法。在那个筛选电话中问她。

        我在正在举办免费音乐会的公园里见过老朋友,在他们有免费展览的图书馆,在公园里散步,a hike up a mountain,是的,咖啡日期。另外,I know EMK doesn't recommend"咖啡枣,但最初的咖啡约会让我现在幸福地结婚了!!

        If a girl doesn't like the idea of a"cheap date"for an intial meet and greet,then you've just weeded out a gold digger.  You want a girl to like YOU,not your wallet.

        祝你好运!!

        1. 西尔瓦纳

          SE,,

          those all sound wonderful 🙂

        2. 太平洋微笑

          我想和电梯约会!多么难忘和有趣。我会永远看着电梯,记得那个日子。

          我参加过的最好的约会大概要花10美元。他建议我们在艺术博物馆附近的公园见面。The grounds had water features and sculpture and it was just beautiful.It was free and a real hidden gem.在美丽的环境中漫步,谈论艺术和鸭子和天鹅的浪漫故事给我留下了深刻的印象。Then we found a picnic table to sit for a minute.从他的背包里,he pulled out a couple of red solo cups and two beers.当我们相遇的时候,我们有典型的你从哪里来的?“他记得我出生在德克萨斯州,so he had found a Texan beer and he had a beer from his own home state.令我印象深刻的是,他想起了我的一些事情,然后努力寻找一种方式来庆祝我的独特性;我觉得很特别。说真的?我被吓倒了。And the fact that he was sneaking these beers out was also kind of thrilling;他显然有一点优势,这是一个转折点。We were being"坏的,我们一起做的。On our second date,我们驱车到一个风景点,坐在长椅上观赏城市上空的日落。We talked and made out;很浪漫。我们的关金宝博电子竞技系从来没有起飞,原因有很多,但20多年后,those are still my most favorite dates of all time.

      4. 112.4
        阿达格雷斯

        @adrian:这是我约会35年以来最棒的约会名单。都很便宜,many extremely so,与相关人员的收入相比,and I would have been willing to pay my share in all cases (actually did so in all cases where I felt it would be graceful and not signal lack of interest to the man involved):
        –在我最喜欢的酒廊和一个我在网上认识的人(usenet)喝酒约会。他穿着漂亮地出现了……我迟到了几分钟,上气不接下气,sans makeup and wearing sweats,因为我忘记了时间——第二天早上我必须飞出去做一个会议演讲,但还没有完成幻灯片的制作。更尴尬的是(有点滑稽的是),我忘记了我的身份证,当时可能看了13张,so we walked nearly a mile back to my place and THEN back to the venue talking about obscure science fiction stories,我即将进行的数学演讲,他教的化学实验室,我们相似的背景,and many other things.(我们在一起/结婚13年)

        – We went to a local amusement park together and rode the rides until we were dizzy,getting smooshed together while talking and laughing about the physics involved.(共11年)
        我们一起去参加了一场免费的极简主义声乐演唱会,我们都觉得这个想法听起来很酷,但却发现我们俩都没有一个人在享受我们自己,所以我们偷偷溜出音乐厅,用自己的食物互相讨价还价。”独特的renditions of the pieces we'd just heard.(together for 18 months)
        – We planned to attend one of the early Ignite Seattle!事件(有点像当地的特德谈论的事情)在哪里,during intermission,有一场比赛,看谁能为鸡蛋设计一个足够保护的容器…容器+鸡蛋会被发射(弹射?)从砖墙的投石机,and would"赢在这件事发生之前,我们打了一家当地的商店,把我们的入口拼凑在一起,外面的胶带和免费的泡沫碎片,商店意外地给了我们。
        – a 5-hour coffee date with a math professor that included,at one point,他拿出笔记本电脑给我看一个模拟,which I later found out was totally his intention in bringing it.  Much discussion and hand-waving ensued.  Date ended with arguably the best end-of-first-date kiss I've ever experienced.
        – We met in a well-populated park in late July just after lunchtime and sat on a blanket under a tree,chatting and working on our individual chainmaille projects.  By dusk we were nestled against each other and quite hungry — Whole Foods was close by so we grabbed dinner from their salad bar.
        因为我感冒了,我们的第一次约会提前结束了,so he proposed a raincheck:  dinner and an hour at an escape room.  Working together with him to solve problems under time pressure was not only a blast but also gave me some insight into who he was,他在压力下如何处理意见分歧,and even whether or not he'd be threatened by my competence (he wasn't)

        =====

        Obviously these specific dates wouldn't work for most women (or men),但我认为他们是好约会的原因值得考虑:

        – Each one came about because we'd made enough contact ahead of time to have a good idea of which thing(s) we both enjoyed doing for fun,有共同之处,或者可能喜欢互相学习。

        – Nobody got bent out of shape about how much or little our activity cost or whether it was"the sort of thing one should do on a date"-从我的观点来看,我真正想认识和接触的是他本人,and hopefully vice versa… as long as the setting allows that to happen and shows you were paying attention to some extent,yay.

        – In cases where something went wrong,we were both able to adapt and find humor in the situation — obviously not something you can guarantee your date will do (and I'm against the idea of manipulatively *planning* a"大便试验) but you have control over how *you* handle the unexpected.  If you've clearly made a genuine effort and your date still can't deal,are you likely to be all that well-matched??

        –我们两个都是积极的参与者,让我们的体验相互愉悦,尽管从技术上讲,是那个挑选活动的人,加快步伐,而且(在许多情况下,虽然不是全部),感觉自己愿意付出代价。如果你觉得自己的努力没有得到回报,你可以欣赏,and that this is going to be an ongoing thing rather than a"first few dates"对她的期望,你的目标是正确的女人吗?)

        是的,我很喜欢安排足够多的约会,在某种程度上能让我感同身受,但似乎最适合那些比女性能量更具男子气概的男人——大约在70-30岁和60-40岁之间,maybe?Possibly the reason my own"最好的第一次约会不是我计划的,但一个或多个后续的约会通常是和同一个男人约会。女性能量”but also have a fair amount yourself,你可能想重新考虑你要接近的是谁;the right woman will see that as an advantage.)

        1. 阿达格雷斯

          @Evan Aw,thanks… this is the kind of stuff I *wish* I hadn't been too overloaded with work stress to write for you to shape into my profile last year… I feel really lucky that you were able to read (listen) between the lines to figure it out anyway 🙂

      5. 11.2.5
        快乐夫人

        Dear Adrian,,

        I read an interesting book last year,被称为““不花钱的一年:我如何少花钱,多生活”Michelle McGagh写的。这是她在伦敦生活一年的精彩记录,没有让自己花在娱乐上,旅行,衣服,等,(couldn't even pay for public transport,她步行或骑自行车),但她可以付房租+电费和少量的食物费(大约?50美元/周或其他)–她吃了很多蔬菜,米饭和扁豆,永远不要吃出去。不管怎样,除了对某人生活中的细节(我爱的东西)进行有趣的观察外,she learnt about the numerous free things to do in her city,and there was an enormous amount on offer.  If you were serious about considering different sorts of dates,读这本书,它将扩大你在这个问题上的思路。

        顺便说一句,确保这个女人和你一起享受她的夜晚不是你的工作。计划一个晚上,让她的感情随波逐流。

  12. 十二
    Adrian

    Hi Marika,,

    你说,““On the topic of empathy,我同意你的看法,这是一个很重要的特点,也是一个经常缺乏的特点……这里有些人什么也不做,只是谈论他们想要什么,却得不到什么,抱怨每件事,never take on any advice or suggestions““

    Today I fell victim to click-bait on YouTube.There was an interview with an American comedian named Chris Rock and it was titled"出名就像是个辣妹;“结果是他3年前在澳大利亚做的一次采访。

    当澳大利亚记者问他在美国是一个贫穷的黑人孩子的童年时,我看到了这种脱节。她不是刻薄的,也不粗鲁,从技术上讲,这并不尴尬,但同时你也可以看出她对这件事很同情,但却无法理解。I liken it to perhaps if you or I read a book about someone from the 1400's going out to sea for the first time,他们的恐惧和斗争。Sure we can understand the struggles of the character intellectually but no matter how hard we try we can never connect with their issue more than that.

    读了斯考特的谈话和他和其他人关于他和约会斗争的回答,我就想起了这一点。我认为我们在这里遇到冲突的最大原因是大多数人都有不同的背景和成就/安逸程度。当谈到约会时.当我们看不到别人可能没有那么难或那么容易的时候,问题就开始了。

    我们很容易想当然地认为,从我们足够大的时候我们就已经使用过的东西,注意到了异性。这也适用于同一性别的人。It doesn't matter if it is height,看,智力,甚至财富,people who have advantages in dating take those things for granted and even start failing to see it as a big deal or an advantage.

    当我们在评论中对某人的斗争表示同情时,当他们不接受我们提出的未经请求的建议时,我们会感到沮丧,同时也会免费得到同情。但是当我们说我为你感到难过的时候,有人怎么会觉得我们理解他们呢?我们转过身来,也说这不像你说的那么糟糕。只追求是你的错”“男性/女性的类型。

    ……

    As a side note I realized that your voice in my head doesn't have an Australian accent,Tom10's doesn't have a European accent,克莱尔没有非洲口音。我想知道,当我读到每个人的评论时,我是否是唯一一个想象美国英语的人??

  13. 十三
    Marika

    人们有多挑剔?You don't love the location of the date – so what,你克服了它。How bad could it possibly be anyway?Even if you don't LOVE art,看几张照片肯定不会破坏交易(是吗?)我认为如此担心是荒谬的。That being said,我来自一个很可能日期会在当地的地方!我想我有两次约会,那家伙考虑了我的兴趣。And while that was certainly touching,第一次约会之后,I didn't give it much ongoing thought.Plus,有一个,半小时内我就知道它不起作用了。But I felt obliged to stay as he'd put so much thought into it.

    我可以想象,如果约会规划师找到一个他或她喜欢并感到舒适的廉价地点,that would be the ideal.Nervously trying to impress a stranger rarely works.

    And parks are open spaces with lots of people (presuming it's a landmark type park like Central Park,I doubt the suggestion is to meet up in a kids' play area). How are you getting killed???

    1. 十三点一
      中午45

      “And parks are open spaces with lots of people (presuming it's a landmark type park like Central Park,I doubt the suggestion is to meet up in a kids' play area). How are you getting killed??““

      因为美国不是纽约市。你知道中央公园有人被谋杀吗?I'm not saying it happens that often,but women have been murdered meeting people off OLD sites.你不能掉以轻心。这就是为什么你不应该让别人来接你第一次约会,而且约会总是在一个非常公共的地方进行。我不做公园,因为在我的地区太危险了。不是所有的公园都灯火通明,人满为患,even during the day.

      I maybe a princess,但我不会被肢解和扔进垃圾箱。

      1. 13.1.1
        Marika

        Yes,我知道美国不是纽约。我说“喜欢”中央公园。这是一个例子。I'm not going to go on Google maps and list out all the big/well known parks across the US.

        People were murdered in a cafe in Tasmania.但我不会在咖啡馆里度过余生。

  14. 十四
    Marika

    PS。Nissa: Thank you 🙂

    Women organise and pay for dates too.体面的,不是公主的女人。So it's not a stretch to understand this concept or weigh in with location ideas.

    分娩的类比是完全荒谬的。

    1. 14.1
      Nissa

      谢谢你回来:—)。也许这些人可以在大黄蜂上体验等待被选中的一面。

  15. 十五
    Marika

    Adrian说:

    “I fear that sometimes both sides of the commenters see women in an unrealistically positive way"“

    那句话是你的错。

    这就像是说那些声称不是所有人(包括你在内)都在性生活之后的男人“以过于积极的方式看待男人”。不。It's seeing them in a balanced way.

    如果你选择和那些要求在第一次约会时享用精美晚餐的公主约会,这是你的事。但是有很多好的,normal women who don't feel like that (granted that's probably less the case in the 20 year age group when women have less life experience and some see themselves as having endless options).

    无论如何,it's a losing strategy to make ridiculous claims like it's being overly positive to claim not all women are crazily picky,我们没有安排日期的经验,或者斯科特的分娩类比。

    那就是你失去我的地方。

    1. 15.1
      Adrian

      真的!Marika my friend I fear you have succumb to blog jadedness without realizing.

      Of course you can disagree with that statement but I hope you will consider it.

      Statements can be true while simultaneously not be putting down all women,nor absolving men of guilt.

      但是,正如你所知,我的政策不是争辩或辩论,所以如果你想从我所说的所有内容中,单独接受那一条评论,而不管句子的上下文如何,因为我以某种方式贬低了所有女人,那就是你的权利。

      1. 15.1.1
        Marika

        Adrian

        如果它打扰了你,我很抱歉。尽管如此,我还是坚持我所说的,I think SE,Nissa and I aren't being overly positive at all – the particular statement bothers me because I strongly disagree.In fact,当出现这种情况时(通常是这样),普遍的观点是,女性作为一个群体,对第一次约会的期望过高。我想平衡一下那种消极的观点。And Nissa and SE are trying to help you come up with ideas that don't break the bank.Because we can recognise it's not okay for men to have to pay through the nose to date.

        …although I do admit you may have copped some of my anger at Scott comparing planning a date to childbirth.

        You and Scott have clearly met some awful women,这太糟糕了。I'm sorry to hear it.

        But,就像你认为我们错过了你的观点,我坚信你失踪了我们的点。

        我们的观点(或者当然是我的观点)并不是说作为一个男人,你不应该提出令人惊奇的约会想法,或者如果你不这样做,你会受到虐待。或者说,所有的女性都是轻浮而不苛求的,每个人都会对每一个免费/低成本的选择感到满意。

        My pointis你应该做一些你觉得舒服的事情,在你的预算内,少担心女人会怎么想,或喜欢,or may potentially say behind your back.You may never see her again.You may dodge a bullet from avoiding getting into a 金宝博电子竞技relationship with a demanding,咄咄逼人的女人她怎么想才对你有好处。But you can't please everyone.And the most important thing is to be calm and happy and good company on the date (not pick the perfect location).如果她看不到,she's not worth your time.

        Nissa&SE为您提供一些建议的想法似乎也会让您感到困扰。为什么?If you disagree with them,不要这样做。They are just examples.他们还表明,并不是所有的女人都希望男人通过鼻子来满足她们。And they do come from their personal experience of planning dates themselves.

        我们想帮忙。真的?And we can relate – at least to some extent – as some of us do plan dates and are happy to contribute financially.

        1. Adrian

          Hi Marika,,

          Anyone else I honestly would not waste time replying to when the conversation starts going south but I really love talking to you and I love your comments because of all the brightness  you bring to the blog… Which is why it pains me to see you suffering from the blog jadedness.老玛丽卡本可以看到微妙的和明目张胆的消极,但不幸的是,我认为你已经习惯了消极,以至于你再也看不到它了。

          I pull away and take breaks when I start becoming infected,but I think you have been submerged too long.

          只需看看杰里米的整个故事以及是什么把他赶走的。没有一个攻击他的女人向他道歉,但他们都假装哀悼他的离去,并称赞他的归来……如果没有人承认他离开的原因,那怎么可能是真的呢??

          And what was he saying or doing that was so bad?他所说的关于女人的所有积极的事情中有一点不一致,突然他被贴上了一个看不起女人的人的标签(我相信是你说的)。Everyone was so upright and virtuously attacking him yet no one looked at their own self in the mirror….I thought this was a site for women to learn about men,not just learn"only"关于他们想听的人的事情。I know I personally really felt horrible about chasing Jeremy away which is why I apologized to him as soon as he came back.

          但是如果我在这个博客上错了人,我总是道歉,永远都有,永远都会。I don't have that level of hubris which is why if I truly believed I offended the women here with my statement I would apologize…

          因此,这一长串的帖子不是关于我为自己辩护,这是关于我试图告诉你,也许……只是也许你正在遭受博客的厌倦而没有意识到它玛丽卡。

          ….   ….   …

          你说,““如果它打扰了你,我很抱歉。I stand by what I said though““

          这不是困扰我的,what bothered me is the fact that you the bright light of the blog can no longer separate a comment in"context"从一个人的整体性格来看。I said"有时是女人”… are you saying it never happens…EVER?当然不是,但你跳到结论,攻击/防御,这不像你。

          You've always been smarter and sharper than me.

          你说,““I think SE,尼萨和我一点也不积极““

          你说,““You and Scott have clearly met some awful women,这太糟糕了。听到这个我很难过““

          看到你承认并不是所有的女人都喜欢低成本的约会,或者很容易取悦尼萨。That is why I said"有时“不是所有的女人,NOT ALL THE TIME…

          我相信如果你不厌倦博客,你会看到这一点。I was addressing a specific point not making a definitive broad statement.

          你说,““Our point (or certainly mine) is NOT that you as a man should have to come up with amazing date ideas and/or be subjected to abuse if you don't. My point is that you should do something you feel comfortable with““

          是的,那太好了……除了这不是我原来的帖子。I first acknowledged that low cost and free date ideas are great.NissaSparklingEmerald,西尔瓦娜给出了更多的想法,我也承认他们都是伟大的!I just simply said they are not always available in every area… That's it.没有别的了。

          这些妇女是那些开始把高维护妇女除掉的人,这不是我评论的目的,也没有回复他们的评论。

          我再次相信,一个没有博客疲劳的玛丽卡会看到这一点,并且不会陷入消极状态。

          你说,““Nissa&SE为您提供一些建议的想法似乎也会让您感到困扰。““

          But I don't.从来没有,我只是指出,这是更微妙的。也许有一天你可以回去客观地重新阅读我的文章。

          事实上,所有人中的你都会认为我会被建议和想法所困扰,而所有人中的你都会对我的回答持消极的看法,这又让我相信你正在遭受博客疲劳的折磨。

          I ask more questions than anyone on this blog.When SparklingEmerald first suggest low cost and free date ideas years ago who do you think she was answering??

          You don't project or add things that people didn't say;that's not you Marika.

          你说,““And they show that not all women expect men to pay through the nose to meet up with them““

          But where did I say that?我什么时候开始想要女人付钱?Sounds like someone who has an agenda or who is defensive and is striking back… You know… like a jaded person would do…

          现在不再是关于低成本日期的问题了,关于男人和女人,who should pay vs who shouldn't,being used vs not,第一次约会谁做的更多…

          真的!That's a lot of subconscious negativity.这就是博客厌倦的力量,我们甚至没有意识到我们所说的话的所有含义,但它们存在于我们思想的背景和我们争论的核心。厌倦使我们不能单独看一个人,我们开始把一切都看成是男女。

          你说,““You and Scott have clearly met some awful women,这太糟糕了。听到这个我很难过““

          真的???Awful???为什么?因为他们不想去低成本的约会,或者因为他们不喜欢集市??

          这个^ ^。…This is why I truly believe you are suffering from blog jadedness without even realizing it.The Marika I know would not call women awful for not liking certain dates.They are free to like and not like certain things just as I am.如果她用了一个男人,但因为不想在公园里散步而变得很糟糕,那会很糟糕吗?可怕的是,我们不得不做一些额外的工作,为两个人找点乐子,而不是懒惰地走最简单的路线,或自私地做我们喜欢做的事情??

          艾米丽是对的,你是博客的核心,玛丽卡,别灰心。我不是在攻击女人,我不想你攻击女人。不付钱的女人并不可怕,就像那些想和情人约会的女人一样。We are not a match sure but they are a perfect match for some guy.

          一个人的品味不是用来判断他的品格的,一个好人有时会说或做一些下流的事……玛丽卡总是这么说,我就是从他那里学到的。

          If I came to your city right now and you had to plan something for us to do,你会使用什么是可用的,对吗?What if on that particular weekend there were no free or low cost options?如果什么是免费的或低成本的东西,我告诉你,我会讨厌做或会很痛苦做它呢?If someone implied that you were at fault for not being able to find something low cost for you while also fun for me,would you say they have an unrealistic view of dating… of men sometimes??

          Yes I stand by my point that in certain situations some people have unrealistic views of how women act during dating.换个话题,我也会对男人说同样的话。so just from that statement is it possible that some people do believe that all women are kind,很好,约会容易吗?…也许我错了,maybe women all women are like that.

          好吧,这是我的最后一点,我保证以后不会再谈这个了。

          Look at most of the commenters that everyone calls positive,我,Tom10,卡尔R我们有什么共同点?我们都从评论部分持续的消极性中解脱出来。Tom10 and I do it specifically because we notice when we start becoming negative,侵略性的,defensive,pessimistic about dating,等等…

          你说,““我们想帮忙。真的?And we can relate – at least to some extent – as some of us do plan dates and are happy to contribute financially.““

          这就是为什么你没有意识到自己被感染的原因,因为你只看到了你的意图,而不是你行为的结果。Remember I made that comment to Nissa specifically,someone who has been very vocal about guys needing to be the ones to approach,计划,先付款。我没有对所有的女人都这么说,我当然也没有对你说,也没有闪耀,two female commenters that have been very vocal on this blog about women paying.

          The majority of our most negative regular commeters honestly can't see that their comments are negative.

        2. Nissa

          @Marika,,

          谢谢你的这篇文章,you are exactly right.

        3. Nissa

          @阿德里安,,

          你对玛丽卡说:看到你承认并不是所有的女人都喜欢低成本的约会,或者很容易取悦尼萨。

          我承认,所有的女人都不喜欢低成本的约会,也不是所有的女人都容易取悦。

          I was just under the impression that you (or most men) wouldn't希望迄今为止,那些喜欢高成本约会的女性很难取悦。但你是对的,that's an assumption.

  16. 十六
    Marika

    Adrian

    那太多了…

    I can see you're upset,所以我不想对你所说和要求的一切作出回应,as it would likely  further upset you..(但不能真诚地同意安抚你,I think you're assuming a lot of bad intentions here and making some pretty extreme accusations).

    我只想说,我真的希望你能找到一个可爱的女人,她喜欢你,对你提出的在你的领域和预算中有意义的约会建议感到满意——当然我不知道。你知道什么比我更适合你。但要记住,你是个替罪羊,这些女人会很幸运有你!!

  17. 17
    苏格兰

    阿德里安–我想我们患了同样的病,我最近才意识到我在做什么。在另一次糟糕的约会之后,我的沮丧归结为:“why wasn't this one,#349,我到底在找什么?!?!?““

    我不希望这样容易,to find someone remotely close to what I'm looking for at this age.  It's NOT easy.  If you're chatting with someone and suggest a meeting,,,在一个拱廊,她嘲笑并想要一家五星级餐厅,你刚刚淘汰了另一个不合适的候选人。我在和别人聊天,建议去商场吃冰淇淋。她真的嘲笑我,问我是不是在开玩笑。拦住她感觉真好。我建议在一个愉快的时间吃晚饭后,另一个女人变冷了。对她来说肯定不够好。下一个……

    我在和另一个人聊天,她建议我先去喝一杯,然后我问她。嗯,I think I'm liking this one.  Drink turns to dinner and she said that she should pay because she asked me.  Trying to be a gentleman (it's hard for me sometimes),我坚持要我付钱,她让我。嗯,I think I'm liking this one.  Then she told me that she preferred eating at home to going out.  Hmmm,my type.

    我必须补充一点,我最喜欢的第一次约会是在附近的一个非常漂亮的地方散步,总是给人留下很好的印象,而且是完全免费的。我不认为我在那里有过一次糟糕的约会,我已经做了很多次了,而且有一个好的约会,如果我决定请她吃饭的话,附近价格合理的餐馆。这里也有一些非常愉快的时间,以荒谬的低价格享用丰盛的晚餐。然而,the walk is not good in the cold winters and happy hours are limited and not always convenient.  There's also a world class museum (free entry) that has free concerts and is a super classy date,but again,is sometimes limited because of location and times and not real good for a first date because it's in the city.

    About paying for dates:  I've talked to plenty of guys IRL and there is a strong consensus where I live (Metro Detroit) that guys get fatigued over paying yet most women observe that guys will pay the whole bill with a smile.  This means that a lot of guys (where I live) secretly resent paying.  Women would be wise to recognize this.  Sometimes when I'm inadvertently with a gold-digger,it just feels like she has conscripted and distorted chivalry to satisfy her slovenly desires.  Don't think that we don't notice this.  IMO,there should be woman's version of chivalry,which I think is what Evan is trying to teach you all.  Some women seem to think that men have to be chivalrous,但他们不必执行任何适当的行为准则。错了!And I know that I do NOT speak for every man.

    我的一个朋友很好地总结了他的约会哲学(他刚刚再婚):1)这个人应该带头,2) the woman needs to let him know that it's safe to do so,and 3) she needs to make it easy for him to do so.  I like his philosophy and I think women looking for a guy would be wise to heed this advice.

    Just remember-  99.7% of the women you meet are not suited for you (or me or any other guy).  That is an immutable fact,就像死亡和税收一样,没有必要为此感到不安。我们有责任自食其力。如果她嘲笑我们在第一次约会时建议吃冰淇淋(或玩电子游戏)。她不适合我们。我坚信每个罐子都有盖子,外面有一些很奇怪的罐子(去听音乐会看看周围)。祝你好运。

    1. 第17.1条
      阿达格雷斯

      @scotth:我很高兴看到这个,deciding not to be a victim is a huge deal and I suspect ultimately a winning strategy 🙂

      Something to think about: Hopefully you'd be cool with a woman saying something like"这是一个很好的主意,但我都是笨手笨脚的——除了一个拱廊之外,还有别的地方可以让我们一起做一个活动吗?“或“我有严重的乳糖不耐症,但喜欢吃其他种类的糖果——还有别的地方我们可以享受吗?“i.e.在不让你失望的情况下说清楚,具体的活动是一个不可行的好理由,但她喜欢这个“一般”的想法,而且仍然想和你在一起??

      For instance: While I happen to like videogames and can tolerate small amounts of ice cream,作为一个乳糜泻,我不得不考虑如何拒绝一个特定的餐馆的建议,这会让我痛苦几天,而不是让它听起来好像我对这个家伙不感兴趣,or as if I don't appreciate his efforts to find a place that will please me.  Usually I say something like"听起来很好吃,but for medical reasons I can't eat gluten so (proposed restaurant) sadly isn't an option for me;你知道还有别的地方安全吗?I realize this may not be something you've ever considered,因此,我非常乐意为您推荐一些合适的地点,或者完全由您来决定这项研究。”如果他提出建议,我会提供3-5种稍有不同的菜肴,locations and price ranges,但希望至少有一个非常接近他最初选择的菜肴/地点/价格范围。换句话说,I try to honor the *general* idea he originally had and provide useful information without trying to take charge.  If he feels comfortable doing the research,I quietly double-check his choice online (since I can't afford the downtime of him being wrong) and then make sure to compliment the quality of the alternative(s) he's offering.  Given that I can't choose the least awkward path of simply not having celiac disease (I wish!)这种方法似乎能将尴尬降到最低。最多能给他一个额外的机会去努力,and in turn gives me an the opportunity to show how much I appreciate that effort… i.e.a mutual win.

      1. 17.1.1
        苏格兰

        Ada Grace-因为那样的事情,我完全可以改变计划。我很感谢她对做出选择的反馈。我觉得尴尬的事情之一是在不知道她的喜好的情况下选择一个地方。我更愿意抛开一些选择,看看她必须说什么。也许这表明我缺乏信心,或者我是一个软弱的贝塔男性,或者说我是女性,但我真的不给一个什!T.对的人会感激的。毕竟,我是想取悦她。那些希望我能读懂他们思想的人应该这样说,这样可以节省我们的时间。

        1. 阿达格雷斯

          Nice!I like it when guys do what you're talking about (offer several options and allow me to choose).  You put the time into researching several possibilities instead of just one,i.e.took *more* initiative,从某种角度来看——你给了她非常明确的证据,证明你在乎她过得很愉快。

    2. 17.2
      SparklingEmerald

      史葛说:“My frustration after another bad date came down to:"why wasn't this one,#349,我到底在找什么?!?!??““

      I know EXACTLY what you mean.  When I was in OLD,我对男人本身并不感到沮丧,但在这个过程中,它不起作用。米色有明显相互不感兴趣的日期,我会因为再次空手而沮丧,一开始我不感兴趣的人拒绝了我,对此我并不感到沮丧。这就像找工作一样,是你调查的第200个工作地点说的。”我们现在不会雇佣任何人。”在第199个潜在雇主告诉你之后,“我们认为你不适合这个职位。”,在第198个潜在客户想当场雇用你之后,但你不想用10英尺长的杆子碰那工作,所以你不得不拒绝这个提议。你可能会意识到这200次求职面试都不会成功,但是你仍然对找不到合适的工作感到沮丧。

      我对初次见面后拒绝我的那些我感兴趣的人没有怨恨。The men that I had to tell"我们不是对手”,我不认为他们很糟糕或是什么,只是不是我的对手。在相互冷漠的情况下,好,在这种情况下,没有理由和另一个人生气。But after the 100th or so date and coming up with ZILCH,它变得令人沮丧。

      “Once,我在和别人聊天,建议去商场吃冰淇淋。她真的嘲笑我,问我是不是开玩笑吧。”“

      她真粗鲁。很高兴你阻止了她。

      想做一个绅士(有时对我来说很难)我坚持要我付钱,她让我。嗯,I think I'm liking this one.  Then she told me that she preferred eating at home to going out.  Hmmm,my type.

      Hope you and this lady work out!随时通知我们。

    3. 十七点三
      MilkyMae

      记住99.7%的你遇到的女人不适合你

      At the risk of sounding nerdy,这些几率大约是300次约会中的1次成功。这样的几率还不够。1/3%的几率比随机的要小。杂七杂八的人形成亲密关系的几率更大。你需要更好的几率,特别是考虑到人们不会随意约会。金宝博电子竞技

  18. 十八
    Marika

    斯科特和波光粼粼

    对!!

    那么你的朋友们,要么从未尝试过老,or happened to meet their partner on there quickly say ‘I just don't know what you're doing wrong!…叹息…

    希望它也能和新来的女士一起解决!!

  19. 19
    杰瑞米

    阿德里安很难对你上面写的内容作出回应,所以我只关注一件事。在所有人中,I know you are on this blog to learn,所以,理解沟通有一点很重要:男人倾向于通过他们所说的来进行沟通。女人通过她们所说的来交流,what they don't say,the way they say it,the way they choose not to say it,their tone and their context.

    你写过没有人向我道歉-这不是真的。有些人用他们的话道歉,有些人不说一句话,而是以礼貌道歉。With praise,几乎是自暴自弃。似乎要说,‘I'm too proud to say sorry  but I'm saying it without saying it so I hope you hear me.' I heard.

    一个女人转向一个男人说,‘do you find it cold in here?他不抬头说不,两人的谈话完全不同。她在说,“I'm cold and want you to turn up the heat.But I don't want to put you out by asking you.我想让我们建立亲密关系,你告诉我你也很冷,或者至少关心我很冷,and take action to show you care."当他说没有她听到,“我不在乎你,不想靠近你,不会为你做任何事,会让你对自己承担全部责任。“Of course  he don't hear any of that and wasn't saying that.他只是不冷。她指责他漠不关心,he thinks she's nuts.他们说不同的语言。

    对女性的建议是学会不要因为从未发生过的对话而受到情感上的伤害。And the advice to men is to know that as far as women are concerned  these conversations have happened  so learn to listen differently.

    1. 19.1
      艾米丽原文

      Jeremy,,

      一个女人转向一个男人说,‘do you find it cold in here?“…”他们说不同的语言。

      不。She ask if it's too cold.他说不行。她知道他比她更喜欢这件事。No surprise.男人更喜欢寒冷的天气。所以她问她是否能把温度调到一个稍微暖和一点的温度,但可能没有她想要的那么暖和。If he refuses to compromise on a temperature they both find有点舒适的,她知道他很自私。

      有些女人交流非常直接。If she wants to apologize,she does.She still may speak the man and be cordial but feel an apology isn't warranted or that a discussion isn't necessary because they'll never be able to agree.

      1. 19.1.1
        Marika

        哎呀,,艾米丽你回来了!!

        I'm not a direct communicator by any means,但我非常同意你的第二段。这也与不为他人情绪负责的谈话有关。

        不是所有的误会,强烈的情绪反应或决定采取空间需要涉及到责任的分配。

        1. 艾米丽到

          Marika,

          You are a sweet person.每当我读到你的帖子,I picture you beating men off with a stick.(“Beating off"probably wasn't the best turn of phrase.  🙂  )  But you get what I'm saying.

      2. 19.1.2
        杰瑞米

        在某些情况下可能是这样,艾米丽。The pitfall of unspoken conversations is that someone may hear something that was never intended.  But I find it's better to give people the benefit of the doubt of good intentions.Ive written before that apologies don't interest me.Behavior does.很高兴收到你的来信。

        1. 艾米丽到

          Jeremy,,

          你是个好人,too.It's good to have you back.

          I was just pointing out that not all women talk in some kind of double speak,I'm-expecting-you-to- pick-up-my-subtext-because-I-won't-come-out-and-say-what-I-mean.For some,“Is it cold in here?“真的只是意味着”这里冷吗?““

        2. 杰瑞米

          You are a sweet person too,艾米丽在所有的胡言乱语下。You remind me a lot of my sister.如果你和西尔瓦娜都是对的,不是所有的女人都是间接交流的,比所有男人更直接的交流。但是男人在与女人打交道时还是应该注意细微之处,而女人应该假设男人错过细微之处。我发现这是一个很好的开始,直到一个人了解更多关于他们所属的个人。

        3. 艾米丽到

          Jeremy,,

          你让我想起了很多我妹妹

          真的。This must be what it feels like to be put in the friend zone.   🙂

          但是男人在与女人打交道时还是应该注意细微之处,而女人应该假设男人错过细微之处。我发现这是一个很好的开始,直到一个人了解到更多他们所属的人。

          我同意。I try to be as blatant as possible when talking to men.As a general rule,they don't pick up on subtlety.

      3. 19.1.3
        Marika

        哦,艾米丽

        Hardly!…

        Thank you,though 😊

      4. 19.1.4
        又一个家伙

        @艾米丽,原文

        No surprise.男人更喜欢寒冷的天气。所以她问她是否能把温度调到一个稍微暖和一点的温度,但可能没有她想要的那么暖和。如果他拒绝在温度上妥协,他们都会觉得有点舒服,她知道他很自私。

        We have touched upon one of the biggest incompatibilities between men and women.  The average man is comfortable at 68F/20C whereas the average woman is comfortable at 72F/~23C.这种差异是有原因的;即,男性比女性有更高的代谢率,这是因为男性有更多的肌肉。男人通过蒸发废热产生自己的小热岛。这就是为什么很多男人不喜欢抱着睡觉。女人的身体阻止了废热的蒸发,reducing comfort for the man.

        1. 小型摩托车

          阿门!!

          As crazy as this sounds,这是我上一段感情中的摩擦源!金宝博电子竞技She喜欢勺子,,在床上。我不是喜欢拥抱的人,but of course,我愿意为我的搭档做这件事。The problem??

          她像壁炉一样散发热量!我一次只能吃几分钟(除非我在寒冷的日子里窗户裂开了)。

          我向她解释过,but it still led to arguments.  Ugh..大声笑。

        2. 快乐夫人

          我丈夫坚持每个房间都要单独调节空调和暖气。他把房子的区域全年都设在北极,我整个冬天都在蒸其他房间。前几年我们偷偷地反复调节每个房间的最小和最大温度,and fighting about the other doing so,before reaching a"marital agreement"(仅2份婚姻协议中的2份)23C,为期9个月,夏天更冷。我们家有14个房间,many quite large.  Our electricity bill is harrowing.

        3. 西尔瓦纳

          小型摩托车,,

          比塞在你身边的冰块(也就是女人的脚)要好,男人总是抱怨……哈哈。

          但我能理解你的来历。

        4. 杰瑞米

          Lol,ok I'll help you procrastinate.当我坐在我的海滨套房的超大阳台上的超大床上时,我在手机上打这个,俯瞰着绿松石水和白色,sugar-fine sand of Grace Bay,Turks and Caicos.太阳在水面上升起——我很早就起床了,喜欢看日出——早餐将在我跑步前7点送到我们的套房。淋浴,去当地70公里的珊瑚礁浮潜。目标是找到我答应带回家给孩子们的海螺皇后贝壳。Wife doesn't like snorkeling so she will be at the spa this morning.我们会回来吃午饭,然后一手拿着一本书,一手拿着一杯果味饮料在海滩上度过一个下午,偶尔可以在水上乘坐皮划艇或乘坐爱好双体船。然后我们会和孩子们(在家里和公婆)开玩笑,然后去我安排的海滩上的烛光私人晚餐。很久没有我们俩度假了,so we are vacationing the hell out of it.But I will likely be as overwhelmed as you with work when I return,太太高兴。我接下来几周的病程很可怕,我离开后可能会出现什么都没有。必须活在当下。我不擅长这样做努力在正念方面做得更好。

        5. Nissa

          哈皮夫人,,
          I also get cold feet,但我发现了一个奇迹——保温袜。我在亚马逊上买的,the extra long ones,因为它们比普通袜子暖和7倍,但不会让我的脚出汗。They are my house slippers now,because they regulate my body temperature so much better.现在,I'm in California,so cold to me is 40F,但我爱他们。

        6. 阿达格雷斯

          哈皮夫人:
          “我丈夫坚持每个房间都要单独调节空调和暖气。”“
          .
          Seems like a good arrangement 🙂 In winter my dad likes the kind of sleeping temperature where the glass of water by his bed freezes,我妈妈…没有。我记得当他们把床垫上的记忆泡沫垫扔掉时,他们进去准备睡觉了。看了看,并意识到他们的轮廓仍然被压在泡沫前的夜晚。Actually I think that's also around the time my mom started sleeping in a different (warmer) room 🙂

    2. 十九点二
      西尔瓦纳

      Jeremy,,

      This,right here,is why I totally fail at being a woman.There's no way,no how I could ever even form such a complicated thought process,or try to come up with ways to express myself in the most round-about way possible.

      如果我冷,I'll tell him straight up that I'm cold (I wouldn't even bother asking him if他是冷,since it wouldn't change,or have any influence on the fact that我很冷。

      然后让他把温度调高一点,或者告诉他我需要穿上更暖和的衣服(如果在外面的话)。等。

      一个大脑是如何从我很冷“let's see how many ways I can test his care/devotion/etc.问他一些只有点关系的事情you冷)然后看看他是否能在这个过程中的某个地方找到解释我的实际意义的方法。”??

      我已经精疲力尽了。

      又一次,I'm a rather impatient person.I have been known to tell people to get to the point,and tell me straight up what they want if I thought they might be hinting at something.

      1. 19.2.1
        快乐夫人

        Me too Sylvana,,

        –我不认为我做女人失败,但我当然不相信这一切,我会让别人为我做点什么或为我做个决定,通过暗示或被动(?好斗的)或是绕圈子说话,不清楚,直截了当,令人恼火。太遗憾了。如果桌子被翻了,一个男人交流得那么可悲,我会尖叫。这真的是男人必须忍受的正常女人的垃圾吗?只需清楚地沟通,拥有你自己的存在状态和观点。我讨厌女孩们如何学习所有这些轻率乏味的被动行为。I hate how some cultures laud compliant,biddable girls as the height of femininity.

        1. 杰瑞米

          你认为这种交流会让女孩“听话”?大声笑。Ask any man who asks his wife what's wrong and has her reply ‘nothing,' or say"我很好。”“

        2. 艾米丽到

          夫人Happy,,
          “I hate how girls learn all these wishy-washy passive behaviours.I hate how some cultures laud compliant,顺从的女孩和女性的高度。”“

          我讨厌一些女人采取的无助的行为。“我不可能一路开车去拜访我的家人。”OMG,it's a 3-hour drive!Put your big girl panties on and get in the car!!

        3. Marika

          Hey!这里有一些直接的给你-停止取笑间接的女人!!!

          Jokes;……把我们当作一个迷人的谜团来解决……或者博物馆展览。

        4. 快乐夫人

          Dear Emily,原文,,

          so glad you have returned to the fold.  The driving thing aghgh!我现在的老公在他年轻的时候开车带着各种各样的女人绕着很远的距离,and I was thinking recently,我neverget driven around for basic errands etc.  I mean not that I want to,well … maybe a little bit sometimes would be nice,but geezz.  Drives half of Sydney's population everywhere then stops after marrying me.Humpff.

          亲爱的杰瑞米,,

          也许是那种女人,在结婚多年后,当被问到什么问题时,他什么也不说,谁不清楚地回答这个问题,直截了当,逻辑上,are the sort of women who,约会时,是灵活的,随和的,fun,didn't voice strong opinions,对现状没有太多挑战,没有优先考虑他们的感受和需求,并没有直接陈述——其中的一些/大部分是很多男人在约会时说的并表现出他们想要的特质。

          像这样的女人,when asked a clear emotional question that requires her to identify and discuss her wants or emotional state,cannot;she hasn't the habit of thinking in that way.  She has the habit of putting others' feelings and desires first.  She is so uncomfortable at being asked how she actually feels,怎么了?that she can't begin the process of thinking about is,and she says"什么都没有,which is shorter,更容易的,需要别人来做她的情感工作。

        5. Marika

          Hi快乐夫人

          The driving thing – can't relate to that specifically,但同样的,我不明白为什么人们会提到他们为以前的合作伙伴所做的事情?尤其是如果他们现在不做这些事情。就我个人而言,我几乎没有提到以前的合作伙伴(只有当他们问的时候)。I'm assuming they don't do it to be hurtful?To be clear,不是他们做了那件特定的事(他们的过去是他们自己的)。是他们告诉我的。I actually asked a guy once"why do you think I'd want to know this?“.没有真正得到答案。

          The temperature thing made me laugh.I personally don't see the need for any artificial heating or cooling in Sydney between March – June and September – November.你不能开/关窗户或用毯子吗?That being said,something more than a fan would have come in handy the last few nights!我担心环境问题,尽管如此,考虑到澳大利亚对煤炭的热爱。

        6. 杰瑞米

          我不知道,哈皮夫人。是这样一个女人不把自己的感情放在首位,从而导致在要求她想要什么时犹豫不决?Or is it that she very much prioritizes her own emotions and desires,but wants a man who can intuit them without having to be told?一个男人,正如压力球所描述的,“just gets it?““

        7. 快乐夫人

          Dear Marika,,

          re the driving women around,it's not that a spouse lists all the past efforts for other partners,it's just that stories are told,以及观察到的模式。结婚几十年后,我想故事一次又一次地被讲述…

          亲爱的杰瑞米,,

          我们中的大多数人都希望我们亲近的人能够理解,without having to be told,我们的感受。我很感激。但是当我们关心的人不知道什么是错的时候,and is asking,surely it's just better to tell them,rather than become angry they can't read a mind.  The irritated"什么都没有或“我很好,when they most assuredly are not,更像是悲伤和愤怒的表达,that their partner doesn't know (=care,如果你的想法很马虎)够了。我只想让人们对他们的情绪状态和想法负责;if they have a problem,tell me clearly,别生气。一个亲密的朋友给了我silent treatment"一个月一次,而不是告诉我他很沮丧。我甚至没注意到我们已经4周没说话了,and there he was,怒火中烧。真是一只火鸡。

          当成年人不清楚地交流时,我就会有这种感觉,玩这些游戏。孩子们,我忍受了,because they still have to be taught how to behave normally.

          How are the islands?我在这里写作是因为我沉浸在工作中,不知从何开始,and clearly I'm going for the Hamlet Best Procrastinator award,听到别人在度假时到处闲逛,哦,男孩…

        8. Marika

          哈皮夫人:

          当成年人不清楚地交流时,我就会有这种感觉,玩这些游戏。

          The silent treatment is definitely immature and unhelpful.但有时“什么都没有可能意味着,你没有足够的语言来表达你在那一刻的感受,you're sorting through your feelings,or you want to ensure you put your thoughts into words appropriately before communicating (/fighting) with your partner.In the midst of a fight or with ‘hurt feeling overwhelm' it's not always easy to communicate (and depending on the type of partner you have).

          我感觉到你对那些行动不明确的女人很恼火,direct ways in romantic 金宝博电子竞技relationships.But none of us are perfect,成熟的,在生活的各个方面都是合乎逻辑的成年人……最好的解释方式是,这并不总是那么直截了当——如果我记错了这一点,请原谅我——你不是做了一个实验来测试哪些朋友在你身边,愿意付出努力吗?正如你所感受到的那样,在努力程度上存在着不平衡(或者类似的?)Again,我可能错在这里(那是很久以前的事了)。but I think you wanted them to do a little bit of mind reading to show they cared.如果我错了就不管。

          我们会被不同的事情触发。我不喜欢和朋友在一起,but I do admit to at times being a bit like that in romantic 金宝博电子竞技relationships.也许这至少有助于解释这一点。I think putting it down to immaturity is too simplistic,personally.

          我也很想从杰里米那里听到这些岛屿,因为我坐在这里工作,有0%的动力!C'mon Jeremy,help us live vicariously 🙂

        9. 快乐夫人

          Dear Marika,,

          你的记忆是正确的,it我没有联系”friends"一整年都没联系过我,今年,小子,这次实验结果,我现在发的圣诞贺卡越来越少了。但这绝不是我想让他们看我的想法。而是看他们是否想和我说话,或者追赶:如果他们这样做了,他们会给我打电话/发信息。如果他们一年都不打电话,我把友谊降低到以前是朋友”,或““熟人”这一年虽然悲伤,但充满了光明;I've realised I was 100% carrying a few 金宝博电子竞技relationships.

          I try to be logical,but I'm sometimes emotional just like the next person.   I just find as I age,I'm increasingly intolerant of BS behaviour,waffle,被动攻击的废话,lack of clarity in communications (unless you have a brain disorder,then I'm all empathy),and a whole lot of other things.  It's like a weird personality transplant and has just come out of nowhere over recent years.  I used to be such a people-pleaser;我在成长过程中不断地检查酗酒母亲的反复无常情绪变化,并相应地调整我的行为。and calming any room full of people and personalities.  Now,我已经结束了。情感枯竭。人们可以管理自己的垃圾。

        10. 艾米丽到

          夫人Happy,,

          你的记忆是正确的,it was me not contacting"friends"一整年都没联系过我,all this year …  It was to see whether they wanted to talk with me,或者追赶:如果他们这样做了,他们会给我打电话/发信息。如果他们一年都不打电话,我把友谊降低到以前是朋友”,或““熟人”这一年虽然悲伤,但充满了光明;I've realised I was 100% carrying a few 金宝博电子竞技relationships.

          我在同一条船上。如果有人能做到的就是每年给我发几条短信,我不再为友谊烦恼了。I have one friend to whom I said I'd like us to stay in better communication.She agreed.I initiated contact a few times but she never did.几个月前我本应该去看她,但我改变了主意。Did I really want to make an hourslong drive for someone who was doing so little??

      2. 19.2.2
        Marika

        也许你是个完美的女人?所有其他好处,没有间接性。我想那会是一笔奖金!🙂

      3. 19.2.3
        阿达格雷斯

        >我已经精疲力尽了。

        Yeah,我最近约会过的最后一个男人(钦佩地)总是说些什么。”真的,你不像我见过的大多数女人——你说的是你的意思,不玩游戏。”我也有个家伙拒绝了我,telling me that I was too direct and"lacked mystery,“a criticism that amused and delighted me 🙂  (Sorry-not-sorry,我是个直截了当的人(巧妙地)说出了她的意思,准时出现,坚持到底,and does her best to communicate clearly.  Since,after all,that's what I expect from others.)

        既然我既是个好女主人又是个好客人,as well as perpetually cold,I will (in my own space) warn a guy that I'm turning the thermostat up or (in his space) ask him to please turn the thermostat up.  Direct but courteous.

        当我离家出走时,我通常会多带几层,因为我似乎处于女性平衡温度的上尾部,大部分时间我的位置保持在80华氏度/27摄氏度。so at my place it's more often the case that he'll hint that he's warm (many Seattle men are frustratingly indirect themselves) or ask if there's any way I can turn the heat down.

        我想还有一个询问VS猜测除了基于性别的差异或期望之外,这里发生的事情。问文化,但生活在更多的guess"文化)

        1. 快乐夫人

          是的,27C也是我的首选温度,如果我没有婚姻协议,that's where the thermostat would be during winter.  When my husband complains about the heat,I just tell him to take his clothes off.  Works for me,双赢他在表演中的肌肉,还有对我的温暖。

        2. 阿达格雷斯

          @MrsHappy:

          I just tell him to take his clothes off.

          Awesome!😀

  20. 二十
    Marika

    我想区别在于埃姆斯特,你直接和你的朋友说话。She didn't step up,so it's all on her.我希望自己能做到这一点,而不是成为实验的一部分。Happy女士提到的那个沉默治疗的人可能正在进行自己的实验(看看是否注意到他的沉默)。

    也就是说,friendships aren't that triggering to me.I guess it's quite easy to be direct and in control of your emotions when something isn't triggering.

    很抱歉你们两个都有一些烂朋友。I'm telling youe,搬到这里,我会给你看一段美好的时光!😉

    1. 二十点一
      艾米丽到

      Hi Marika,,
      很抱歉你们两个都有一些烂朋友。I'm telling youe,搬到这里,我会给你看一段美好的时光!😉
      我可以好好利用。🙂

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